another attempt to explain P.I.F. (1 Viewer)

[HorseyStripe]

P.I.F. stands for "Pay it Forward" (if you've seen the movie you'll definately understand)

ok, so i'm going to attempt to explain this, and i say we just do it, if it takes off and the mods think we need another forum they'll be able to add it and move all our threads there...hell, i'll even "mod" it if need be...i must warn you though, i'm brutal...

All info is taken from Tempset's original idea found HERE


starting with the easiest way i've found to explain it:

...this plan would not include expecting anything in return.

The entire definition of pay it forward is giving something away with no expectation of something in return.

A proper description of this would be as follows:

1. Original coral colony owner would frag his/her colony and give it freely to ANY participating member of MARSH. this would be fully documented & publicly announced.

2. Once the person who RECEIVED the coral has grown it enough, they pass the VERY SAME CORAL onto someone else to do the same thing.

SO start your thread, say where you got the coral from, how long you've had it, and whatever other info you feel you'd like to put out there...my first shot at this can be found HERE

remember, you're GIVING AWAY A PIECE OF CORAL...with only the expectation that the person you're giving it to will do the same before they try to sell any of it or whatever they want...

something else i found interesting (i took some of the guts out)

...Some reasons you should not participate in this program:

If you can't grow coral... you shouldn't participate.
If you can't get around town on your own(like me)... You shouldn't participate.
If you feel the ONLY way to get beautiful & rare corals is to buy them online or in a store...
If you feel that your lifestyle or work will hinder your involvement in the program...
If you feel everyone is as dishonest as you are...(tricky one here)
If you can't stand waiting in long lines..(then just go buy the coral)....

I don't care if your new here, own a 500gal system with lights that would make a football stadium jealous, or if your just the average Joe hobbyists.

it makes sense, but if you kill something, nobody's gonna come to your house with a rusty spoon in their hand and blood on their mind...part of the experience...just don't jump in if you know you're gonna kill coral


part of this will be a learning experience for all of us...learning how to take care of a coral you've never done before simply by reading the thread would/could/should be possible...


this is just people giving frags to each other...and it being passed along...


P.S. M.A.R.S.H. has no responsibility and/or liability for this program, it's just something i decided to try and do...if others want to catch the "fever" it's all on them and they take all risk, damages, and losses involved herin upon themselves...

 

[RocketSurgeon]

We need to utilize the proper forum to list in.

It is members only? I'm excited to c it get started.

 

[HorseyStripe]

We need to utilize the proper forum to list in.

It is members only? I'm excited to c it get started.

Members only to get a frag...but i'd like everyone to see what's going on...member or not...

AND...i forgot to add that each frag should have its own thread, started by the original sponsor or maybe when it's given away again it should get another thread...ie: when you frag the melon zoas you start a new thread documenting that particular piece of zoa, just do a "family tree" of links leading back to the original donor

 

[soymilk]

A new thread for each eh? That could lead to a clusterf..... That could lead to a mess of new threads. I would like to see a sub forum if possible.

 

[HorseyStripe]

A new thread for each eh? That could lead to a clusterf..... That could lead to a mess of new threads. I would like to see a sub forum if possible.

yeah that was the original idea...john's on vacation still...so when he's back we may be able to get it...

 

[merkurmaniac]

Didn't sound very interesting at first, but after reading your summary this sounds like it could be pretty cool and educational. We could find out what really happens to "frag lines", whether they die out or multiply. This would let us peer into the reality of tank raised vs reef harvested.

If it gets its own forum, I'd suggest that those that start the frag line, get to choose its name. i.e, Robert in Katy gave me a chunk of Red Fire and Ice digitata. It was a surprise to me and he asked for nothing in return. It could get recorded and named as "Robert's Fire and Ice." It might take me a couple on months, but I might be able to frag it, either intentionally or by acccident. If I give it away, the "daugther" frag recipient could post that they received it, and maybe a month or two later report... "aw, it died..." or "Hey I just gave a chunk of RGB fire and ice to Karlo and Mike Hoang".

I think its a neat idea.

 

[steveb]

I really like the idea and would like to participate.

 

[gabe_j]

well steve what do you want to give me? lol

 

[HorseyStripe]

I agree with you completely that the rules of the program be made by those running said program. The original idea behind PIF was get something and give something but if its going to be limited to PAID members I would recommend moving it to the members only section so as not to offend anyone who reads it but cant afford the dues. Just my opinion, and yes... I know everyone has one, LOL!

the original idea is about GIVING not getting...you GIVE something and EXPECT NOTHING in return...

you're headed more towards the community frag tank, which we will talk about later

PIF was just something i decided to do on my own...all the "rules" people, including myself, are refering to are simply SUGGESTIONS, and/or GUIDELINES...there are no set "rules" persay...the purpose of SUGGESTING members only is not only to ensure that people involved are dedicated (don't want to give frags to the guy that's gonna tear down his tank 2 months after he starts) but also as OUR way of helping the club by possibly recruiting new members...any member that decides to take part, also takes all responsibility, liability and all possible or acutal losses upon themselves...the ONLY thing M.A.R.S.H. is providing is a place for us to discuss, and share our experiences with this "program"...

our "program" if you will, is merely set forth, by members, for members (and possibly others)...in order to POSSIBLY draw more membership and share wisdom, tricks, and information with Members, and non Members alike, this is the purpose of having it outside the Members Only forum...

I like what yo uguys are doing, If i may make a suggestion. rather than multiple threads, why not have a sticky made and an excel spreadsheet created to log the corals locations and so forth.
you could use google to host the file.

Thanks!...

I'd rather do it like this with pictures and everything...just seems more, personal, fun, and asthetically pleasing to me...I don't want a database, i want something anyone can interact with...if the MoD squad/BoD slap my hand from the cookie jar, so be it, i tried (but i think they'll love it...as long as we keep them from being liable)

not to mention that i don't have excel on all my computers, nor do i have the knowledge to use google in that capacity...

again, thanks for your support! please feel free to jump on the PIF train

what about you can have as much as you'd like, but you have to pass a new frag forward to someone else before you can take more. not really the exact one that you got cause of how long some stuff takes to grow as mentioned above. but like zoas if theres 10 going around and you want one of each you can have 1 but for the other 9 you need to take 9 frags of your stuff and give it away.

and the rule still applys you have to give forward some of the 10 you have when they can be fragged.

i think thats a good system so we're not limited and it stays fair and keeps people honest.
ideas?

I understand exactly what you're saying...and it sounds good...now we just have to figure out how to make it easier to understand...i had to read it like 4x...of course, i could simply be dumb

I really like the idea and would like to participate.

find the gravy train and JUMP ON!

Didn't sound very interesting at first, but after reading your summary this sounds like it could be pretty cool and educational. We could find out what really happens to "frag lines", whether they die out or multiply. This would let us peer into the reality of tank raised vs reef harvested.

If it gets its own forum, I'd suggest that those that start the frag line, get to choose its name. i.e, Robert in Katy gave me a chunk of Red Fire and Ice digitata. It was a surprise to me and he asked for nothing in return. It could get recorded and named as "Robert's Fire and Ice." It might take me a couple on months, but I might be able to frag it, either intentionally or by acccident. If I give it away, the "daugther" frag recipient could post that they received it, and maybe a month or two later report... "aw, it died..." or "Hey I just gave a chunk of RGB fire and ice to Karlo and Mike Hoang".

I think its a neat idea.

Yet another great idea! if you sponsor a frag line...give it a name, so 15 frags down the line you can still see who's getting your frags!

BRAVO!

 

[steveb]

well steve what do you want to give me? lol

I have several chalice and some favia that are growing out that I will be happy to PIF just dont hold your breath as it may take a couple of months

 

[gabe_j]

haha i was joking around but sure i'll gladly spread those around this side of town if your willing to donate. i love me some chalices and favias!

 

[karlo]

Is it me or are all the PIF frags being given away just between the same 5-6 people, looks like some already got one of each from everyone maybe make a rule about time until you can claim another frag and give others a chance because this seems like trading corals between a small group only.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

Is it me or are all the PIF frags being given away just between the same 5-6 people, looks like some already got one of each from everyone maybe make a rule about time until you can claim another frag and give others a chance because this seems like trading corals between a small group only.

I believe you are right, but I also remember on another thread someone already mentioning they wish the group was larger than only 5 or six people. It has also been mentioned already about limiting the number one can receive, and/or incorporating the number they give out as well before receiving more, due to the length of time it takes some coral to grow.

 

[Scott]

You're right, there aren't really very many people participating right now and the issue you mentioned has been brought up before. I think the final resolution was to not be concerned with it until there was a greater number of people participating.

 

[merkurmaniac]

I was wondering the same thing. I would suggest that each person take on no more than say two or three before they hand something on to another. That would seem reasonable, I'd think. Not too many eggs in any one basket at any time, either.

Of course, if no one else wanted what was offered, then ... why not, especially if its headed to the sink instead.

Another idea would be for those saying that they'd like it, to post their "number" by their name. e.g.,...

"Hey, I am offering up my super gnarly accro."

Potential recipients:
"I'd like some" currently -4 (gave none but got 4)
"I'd like one" currently-1 (gave 3 got 4)
"me too" currently +0 (gave 1 got 1)
"over here" currently +2 (gave two, but got none)

Each person would just have to keep track of their own stats, or do it on the spreadsheet.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

I think that everyone participating, if you read the posts from each PIF thread, is wanting to play fair, and not be greedy or stingy. In addition, we have mentioned limiting the number a frags a single party can receive, although I do not believe written rules have been put in place yet.

The group would like more participation, and hasn't in any way, to my knowledge, attempted to limit participation or single others out.

Any and all input would be appreciated and considered. Although Scott has taken the ball and ran with it, I do still believe this is a group effort.

 

[HorseyStripe]

I'm pretty much on the same page as Scott...

However, i do agree with Karlo and would like to see more people involved...there didn't seem to be a giant outpouring of participation at the begining and i'm only seeing the same few people involved...when some of my "better" corals get big enough they'll be fragged and put into this as well...hopefully it'll draw more participation...

I'm also working on consolidating/revising this thread itself so that all the information and questions that have been brought up will be at the top of the first page...hopefully i'll get it done sometime soon...i'm trying to figure out how many posts i need to do that...

 

[HorseyStripe]

P.S. i like Richards idea...HOWEVER...i'd almost venture to say we need one person to be the "keeper of the spreadsheet" in order to do that...i don't know...i'm all for giving people the benifit of the doubt too...

 

[soymilk]

I believe the original idea for the PIF thing was not to get anything in return. Otherwise its just a big trading circle.

Im trying to work out some details about a new plan. We'll see...

 

[HorseyStripe]

I believe the original idea for the PIF thing was not to get anything in return. Otherwise its just a big trading circle.

Im trying to work out some details about a new plan. We'll see...

yes, however we don't want the same people to recieve EVERY frag that comes across...thus the "scoring" system...not so much to deny anyone something but to allow other people a chance to get in before us "PIFHAWKS" jump on every frag that comes across...i lurk all day and from the looks of things a few other people do to...

i dunno...i want to find a way to keep it fair for people that can't be on the site all day every day