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Finally getting somewhere (1 Viewer)

mitchell77546

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Finally got my tank looking somewhat decent. It’s no show tank but I finally got it going good. If I had known that icpanalysis.com was trash I may have been more successful in the past. Been on the Dutch reefing for a couple months now and the tank is Doing quite well since I stopped the water changes.
 

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Cody

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whats dutch reefing.

why is it doing better without water changes?
The Dutch reef system is the reefing method that has the philosophy of no water changes, but rather, dose all the trace elements that would be replenished via a water change. It’s named thusly after being originally conceived by a Dutch reefer a while back in the great country of Dutch.

Edit: just googled it to confirm, it’s technically called the Dutch Synthetic Reef system, or DSR. I always just called it the Dutch Reef System, or DRS.
 

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I tried the "Dutch" theory last year, not intentionally, but because I was so busy with construction projects that I didn't do as many water changes, but figured as long as I was dosing my trace etc, that it would be fine.

And it was, for about 6 months. But slowly things started to change. I didn't really notice until I was looking back at some old pictures and realized my tank was no where near its once glorious self. I started doing lots of water changes and it is slowly coming back but still nowhere near what it once was.

I feel there are things that water changes do that dosing trace elements (along with other things like strontium, iron, iodine, etc) can't.
But what is most important is to do what works for YOUR tank.
 
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mitchell77546

mitchell77546

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I tried the "Dutch" theory last year, not intentionally, but because I was so busy with construction projects that I didn't do as many water changes, but figured as long as I was dosing my trace etc, that it would be fine.

And it was, for about 6 months. But slowly things started to change. I didn't really notice until I was looking back at some old pictures and realized my tank was no where near its once glorious self. I started doing lots of water changes and it is slowly coming back but still nowhere near what it once was.

I feel there are things that water changes do that dosing trace elements (along with other things like strontium, iron, iodine, etc) can't.
But what is most important is to do what works for YOUR tank.
I’m dosing everything and icp test monthly. Moonshiners is part of it but I’m not dosing some of the elements that are recommended with the program.. it’s not perfect but the tank is looking the best it ever has been. I can also attribute the success of my growth to switching to T5 by your recommendation. I should have listened better the first time you said it…
 

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I’m dosing everything and icp test monthly. Moonshiners is part of it but I’m not dosing some of the elements that are recommended with the program.. it’s not perfect but the tank is looking the best it ever has been. I can also attribute the success of my growth to switching to T5 by your recommendation. I should have listened better the first time you said it…
A key aspect that people don’t realize about t5s is that due to their ability to light more of the surface area of the coral, you’re essentially opening up more potential growth areas than just the top. It’s not that the t5 makes the coral grow faster, but rather that it allows for more opportunities for growth. Having said that, I pulled them off of my display for aesthetic reasons. I just didn’t personally care for how it made my tank look. Plus, it was blinding me while sitting on the couch watching shows haha
 

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A key aspect that people don’t realize about t5s is that due to their ability to light more of the surface area of the coral, you’re essentially opening up more potential growth areas than just the top. It’s not that the t5 makes the coral grow faster, but rather that it allows for more opportunities for growth. Having said that, I pulled them off of my display for aesthetic reasons. I just didn’t personally care for how it made my tank look. Plus, it was blinding me while sitting on the couch watching shows haha
The Radion G5 is right there with T5’s now so I finally made the switch. Not to mention the price of the fixtures compared to my PowerModule. It is nice having a smaller profile and reduced power consumption.
 
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mitchell77546

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It’s not any of the factors you guys mentioned. It’s the fact that you can plug it in and set the timer… there are no variables to consider. I don’t think any LED is proven to provide better growth at this point. Maybe so but I haven’t researched that. I know since I went from only the G4 to T5 there has been a considerable difference.
 

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It’s not any of the factors you guys mentioned. It’s the fact that you can plug it in and set the timer… there are no variables to consider. I don’t think any LED is proven to provide better growth at this point. Maybe so but I haven’t researched that. I know since I went from only the G4 to T5 there has been a considerable difference.
Over the past decade Reef Wholesale has optimized the art of quickly improving the health and coloration of imported coral in preparation for sale. Prior to using LEDs, RW identified the specific mix of metal halide and T5 bulbs that best achieved these results. Metal halide and T5 bulbs degrade through operation which results in a shift in spectrum and intensity over time (until the bulbs are changed). The LED spectrum and schedules RW targeted were therefor based on the outputs of fresh but “burnt in” T5 or metal halide bulbs.


The details of each schedule are discussed in the next section. Note that the Radion® program and spectrum color mix were tuned based on several factors including par, spectrum, photo period, and the response of coral to the schedule.
This is important to note because using a LED light to match the key elements of a T5 or metal halide light spectrum may result in light output that may not be visually identical. The reason for this is that the individual LED diodes have narrow spectral output in their respective wavelength but combined, the output of a puck of red, green and blue LEDs will appear white. Similarly, the white output of a T5 or metal halide bulb may have spectral peaks at certain wavelengths, but the output delivered across the whole spectrum will also appear white.


“We started at what looked like the general spectral mix of our favorite metal halide and
T5 bulbs then over the course of a year slowly tweaked the schedule and spectrum based on the ongoing coloration of the corals. Having each bed half lit with Radion’s® and half with our favorite metal halide or T5 mix gave us the control or benchmark. For example if a red dragon frag was looking better on the T5 side of the trough, then we might try increasing the blue channel on the Radion LED side by 5% and evaluate again after 10 days. Obviously not super scientific but then our interest is in the result more than the photo- biochemical mechanism at work.“


Prior to using Radion® G3 Pros RW (Reef Wholesale) determined that the best coloration and growth in their SPS corals were achieved using T5 bulbs. Specifically *ATI Blue Plus and *ATI AquaBlue Special in a combination of 80%/20% and specifically in *ATI Powermodules. In the
same time period given the same parameters and frags from the same mother colony, this T5 bulb mix generally outperformed (for most, but not all corals) their original lighting staple, metal halide.


Matching and then improving the performance of the Radion® G3 Pros over the T5 ATI bulbs took RW the better part of a year. Initially a visual match provided a starting point, but given that the eye is a poor tool for evaluating lighting, additional refinement took a combination of PAR measurement and spectral analysis. Although the visual appearance of the light output was different between the T5 bulbs and the Radions®, coral response was similar if not identicalFrom there further adjustment of the spectrum and fortnightly reviews resulted in a spectrum that outperformed the T5 benchmark.

———————————————————

Given that information above and because I ran a PowerModule with mostly ATI Blue+ and ATI ABS I finally switched. The main reason was because the spread on the G5 caught up with everybody and surpassed most LED fixtures. At first I thought it was hyped, but after I kept watching the growth and coloration of corals and saw the spread charts, I became a believer.

So for me it made sense to buy cheaper fixtures, 80% less weight, completely programmable, less energy consumption, with superior spread.

That data above was taken with G3’s w/o diffusers.

Just imagine what the G5’s with diffusers would do now in the same study running the AB+ program.
 
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I am glad I am done away with t5s years ago. I hated having to change the bulbs... Having the bulbs short out...break easy... And the cost and waste. I so much prefer led lighting but find all the features being a pain to set sometimes.
 
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The presets are nice. I do love my radions but they just weren’t growing coral by themselves very well…
 

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The presets are nice. I do love my radions but they just weren’t growing coral by themselves very well…
May have been operator error. :) What did you program them too? PAR? Schedule?

Look at WWC, Top Shelf, Tidal Gardens, Reef Wholesale, etc. All these people do it for a living. If they didn’t grow coral, they’d go broke.

One thing I really liked about T5’s is the colors. No other light source had the color of T5. I thought they took the best pictures.

Like Tangs said…changing bulbs gets to be annoying and they wouldn’t make a good connection sometimes. I’d get the heavy fixture down, change bulbs, test it, and get it back up only to find one channel not working. Talk about a bummer.

So nice to control everything on my phone and get better color pop with same or better spread.
 
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I used WWC actually and I tested the par with the par meter from the club. 10hr schedule… I’m pretty happy with my hybrid setup I’m getting the best of both worlds.
 
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350 at the top 75 at the bottom. Of course various par readings through our. I really don’t think that makes a difference. It’s not like I didn’t research where and how much I’m supposed to have. Again the T5’s are doing the job that the radions were not. I’m not here to argue about it. I don’t think I’m missing anything. The AB+ setup seemed to be the most productive after I got off WWC’s lighting schedule but I didn’t like the color that AB+ was giving me nor was it producing the growth in getting now. I hope you get what you want out of the G5’s. I think they would be better if they were spread out over a large panel like the sky so you don’t get the shadowing.
 

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