Gold Euphyllia (1 Viewer)

[steveb]

So an interesting discussion was occurring over is BST. So I created a thread here to discuss the why's other peoples pic's etc. They are beautiful and sadly command a high premium these days.

 

[WolfTangAquarist]

Some are just due to not being available I believe. Especially the Indonesian ones. With the Aussie gold torches ( I don’t see many hammers unless it’s wall gold) I believe there is some type of control. They also seem to overall grow at slower rates.


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[Cody]

Did yall know the indo ban ended almost a year ago? They're not rare, every shop in town has them, every other hobbyist has them, and their coloration is basically a slight variation from the next one.

People buy these exclusively for the potential opportunity to resale them. Eventually, when the speculators stop selling to other speculators and have to sell to an actual consumer, they will discover that they're no where near worth what they think they are. Value and price are two separate entities and the market for torches will drop soon enough.


The indo coral export ban ended in October of 2018, about a year ago, and y'all are still acting like they are banned. Article: Indonesian Coral Export Restrictions Have Been Lifted | Reef Builders | The Reef and Marine Aquarium Blog

The only reason the market for euphillia, and specifically touches, which are a big export of Indonesia, got crazy was because of the ban, which was a very short period. Yet, here y'all are paying $350-700 per head when every store can get them just as easily as a frogspawn.

If you've got torches then sell them now because the ban has long been over and that price will deflate to reflect the actual value.

 

[Cody]

Some are just due to not being available I believe. Especially the Indonesian ones. With the Aussie gold torches ( I don’t see many hammers unless it’s wall gold) I believe there is some type of control. They also seem to overall grow at slower rates.


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Ban ended about a year ago. If the stores only have one or two it's because they're holding the rest of their stock in another tank and replace them as they sell. Creates the illusion of scarcity so that you pay $350 for a $40 coral. Just like diamonds.

 

[WolfTangAquarist]

True although some statements were made and they “lifted” the ban. Exporting is still not allowed and from my understanding it will only be open to the giant farmed corals they have. Either way it’s good but I still don’t see Indo corals flowing through shelves and easily replaced by a tank in the back. If that was the case most stores would have stock piles of these pieces.

I do have to say though on your 40 dollar comment being the case with wild caught corals. However even ORA stuff isn’t that cheap and you come down to pay the time it took to grow and cultivate it. So even if the export begins and from the looks of it to be mostly from farms, I don’t see a price drop on most of these corals with Indo Pacific heritage.

Especially now that speculators know that market exists for high price with that Indo badge I believe there will definitely be a control on how often they let certain pieces get into the market.

That goes for all Mushrooms, torches, rainbow tenius variants, or chalices.




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[steveb]

Did yall know the indo ban ended almost a year ago?

Yeah I don't think it did regardless of what Jake Adams posted. I just checked with 2 wholesalers and one trans shipper and they all said nope. The golds you are seeing are either from Australia or possibly Tonga or from someones personal reserve if you will.

March 2019 International Waters: Confusion and Frustration Still Reign Regarding Indonesian Corals

May 29, 2019 ReefBuilder Article - What is the Status of Indonesian Aquarium Corals? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Marine Aquarium Blog

 

[RR-MAN]

I don’t get it why drop the price if there is so much demand.

Why do people pay $300 for a 1/2” HW frag. JF was selling a tiny SPS frag for $450 at reef current...why...because people want it and willing to pay.

 

[Cody]

I don’t get it why drop the price if there is so much demand.

Why do people pay $300 for a 1/2” HW frag. JF was selling a tiny SPS frag for $450 at reef current...why...because people want it and willing to pay.

I understand your point and know that's how markets work. It's just frustrating for me at times because I meet so many new people in the hobby that seem like they're getting into it as an investment rather than just for the love of the corals and what we keep. Maybe both, I don't know. Hell, I don't mind paying a premium for a nice coral and do so whenever the wife won't kill me for doing so. I guess it's just a different mindset that I see developing in the hobby, or rather industry, and I need to get used to it.

 

[Tstew32]

I understand your point and know that's how markets work. It's just frustrating for me at times because I meet so many new people in the hobby that seem like they're getting into it as an investment rather than just for the love of the corals and what we keep. Maybe both, I don't know. Hell, I don't mind paying a premium for a nice coral and do so whenever the wife won't kill me for doing so. I guess it's just a different mindset that I see developing in the hobby, or rather industry, and I need to get used to it.

Get used to it or just say F it and not buy it.


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[Cody]

Get used to it or just say F it and not buy it.


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That or sell out. @WolfTangAquarist Wolfe and mushrooms can't be imported anymore. I'm sitting on a gold mine.

 

[WolfTangAquarist]

That or sell out. @WolfTangAquarist Wolfe and mushrooms can't be imported anymore. I'm sitting on a gold mine.

That retirement fund brother.

If they’re in it for the money they will find out soon enough it takes years for any decent amount to be made. Those guys will wash out because they cannot take care of most corals.



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[Tstew32]

I don’t get it why drop the price if there is so much demand.

Why do people pay $300 for a 1/2” HW frag. JF was selling a tiny SPS frag for $450 at reef current...why...because people want it and willing to pay.

By no means am I hating or being judge mental just not for me.


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[Cody]

That retirement fund brother.

If they’re in it for the money they will find out soon enough it takes years for any decent amount to be made. Those guys will wash out because they cannot take care of most corals.



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Yeah that's part of what bugs me too. I guess it's good if you're selling corals but the whole situation is just off-setting.

"So, have you been in the hobby a while?"

"Nah I'm new, less than a year. But bro, I have so many high end sps"


In my head I'm counting the moments until he kills everything.

 

[Cody]

I don’t get it why drop the price if there is so much demand.

Why do people pay $300 for a 1/2” HW frag. JF was selling a tiny SPS frag for $450 at reef current...why...because people want it and willing to pay.

Well, there are a quite a few theories when it comes to explaining the value of something, and just as many on explaining the price. There's actually an argument to be made for a business model like Jason's considering the he himself goes and procures these specimens. For 99% of the industry, it's just a combination of pot luck corals, how they look in their tank, and the photos that are altered to kingdom come. There's value in someone going to remote locations personally to find these specimens and it's reflected in the price.

Torch corals on the other hand, which are a dime a dozen, look like any other euphillia but just smoothed out into spaghetti, and require very little knowledge to keep happy and healthy, don't make the argument for value. The price is up due to speculation, and it might stay there for some time, but that's just a game of hot potato. It's an ok looking coral that grows fairly easily and a lot of folks have them. That price is going to come down soon with or without the ban.

 

[frankc]

The money and speculation aspect seems to infiltrate pretty much every hobby eventually. My brother and I collected beer cans in the mid '70s when it was kind of a fad (I still have the collection). It started as a fun hobby where we just went dumpster diving and trading among people with no money changing hands. Then people started publishing books listing values of various cans, and companies started making "special limited edition" cans just to sell more, and the hobby became less and less fun.

And good lord, look at classic cars. I'm pretty sure most $20+ million Ferraris are not bought and sold by shade-tree mechanics passionate about the cars.

As far as the average hobbyist actually making money with corals, I'm reminded of our dog-breeder friend's advice that "you can make a small fortune breeding dogs, as long as you start with a large fortune".

 

[RR-MAN]

One thing for sure though-they won’t be able to sell here on marsh because WE CHEAP [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

 

[steveb]

One thing for sure though-they won’t be able to sell here on marsh because WE CHEAP [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

lol ain't that the truth.

 

[Stickboy97]

So true. I started a new tank (my 4th) and really want to add some Euphylia.. I have a frogspawn already but want some torches & hammers. No way I'm shelling out $100 / head for them. I've owned Gold Torches, and honestly unless you run blue lights all the time, they're kind of ugly. I just want some simple green, purple, black and maybe peach colors torches. Guess I'll wait for the bubble to burst.

 

[i_am_poor]

lol ain't that the truth.

I sold some on here for $500

 

[Cody]

I sold some on here for $500

Lies. You wouldn't be poor anymore selling corals at that price.