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Niger Trigger Help (1 Viewer)

Tenny

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@Humblefish @Reefahholic

Looking for some help on this fish.

I started this fish on CP 14 days ago. Things have been going very well. He's a very active eater.

Today I started doing some antibiotics (not that I see any thing wrong, but to be pro-active). I started with Kanaplex / Metroplex in his food. I also began treatment with Praziquantel (API General Cure). I kept the CP at the same level. ( Based on this thread, that should be perfectly fine ) After a few hours I noticed him acting very lethargic. I monitored him more and his condition worsened. He stopped eating and just laid in the tank.

So at this point I began worrying that the medication was having a reaction or something so I prepared a second QT tank (without medication) and transferred him to this tank. I used 10g of water from my DT (This is a very healthy DT, with no issues at all). I didn't have much biomedia to start this QT but put a few ceramic bio-balls in (yeah they are garbage now I under stand this...). I figure that should help keep the Nitrite / Ammonia down. At first he was swimming around and seemed to be doing perfectly fine. Even captured the attached video during this time. I felt I was in the clear....

After about an hour or so like that he started to lay on his side again. He moves around at times, but doesn't swim "normally", he'll push up against the glass hard, then kind of "fall" to the bottom of the tank where he lays for a bit. I don't know if he's just tired from all the stress today or if there's something else going on. There is a filter in it with carbon and filter floss (brand new).

I haven't tried feeding him or anything since moving into this tank.

Not sure what else to do at this point or if I should just leave it alone.
 
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Tenny

Tenny

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Just pulled the filter out and doing a 50% water change with fresh water. Added a second air bubbler to oxygenate the water.

I question if the filter had some issue like an electrical short or something. Will report back later.

Probably over-analyzing everything.
 

Glenn

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What are your ammonia and nitrate levels? I have a seeded sponge in my sump. Been in there for about 4 months if you’d like to use it. You’re close to me.
 
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Tenny

Tenny

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What are your ammonia and nitrate levels? I have a seeded sponge in my sump. Been in there for about 4 months if you’d like to use it. You’re close to me.
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0

Didn't test nitrate, but at this point 50% of the water is just made, the other 50% is from a tank that grows SPS, LPS and everything else without issues so I don't test often. Last time I tested it was less than five..

It could be too many meds all at once. Think about it: His liver & kidneys is having to filter CP, prazi, metro + kana all at once.

That was my thought, I was afraid of doing too much and I think I did. That's why this new tank is just saltwater to give him time to recover.

At this point a low concentration of methylene blue and heavy oxygenation with foam filter is your best best.

Last night I would have been all for giving this a try, but I think right now I'll let him be for a bit.

Night update:
I tried feeding him last night as my g/f swore she saw him picking at something. Didn't care for a mysis. Swam around a bit, but just laying most of the time.

So the morning update:
Swimming around peacefully, seems pretty normal. Not as lively as he was during the CP treatment. I gave him a few pellets and he ate them, but def not as aggressive as he was previously.

I think he is "flashing" during the video I caught. Not as aggressive flashing as with most other fish I've had, but would you still consider this flashing?

I question if the CP has been exposed to too much light and is not as effective. I was doing 60mg/g.
 

BigRick

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Very well could be coming out of stress but keep monitoring him. Whatever caused it may still be lingering. Do u have a small UV? Be careful of sponges as their delicate to water quality and can release toxins.
 

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Tenny

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That's what I have in there now. I just usually keep it in the DT to seed it. I thought I had a few in there still but I was wrong.
 
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Tenny

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My plan right now is to just keep doing 25% water changes twice a day until he appears back to normal 100% or at least for a few days.

At that point I need to decide if I want to just observe him or treat Chemoprophylaxis... and if so which first.
 

BigRick

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That's what I have in there now. I just usually keep it in the DT to seed it. I thought I had a few in there still but I was wrong.
I use these also. Don't worry so much about the bacteria, the oxygen is key at this point. Needs to be heavily aerated.
 

webster1234

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In my opinion, 60mg/gallon CP is a little high. I know it has a pretty wide safety margin but 60mg/g is definitely the upper end of that safety margin. That high of a dose combined with all of the other medications you introduced I think overdosed him. Hopefully he can detox and come out ok. I have run a lot of fish through CP treatment and I usually run it at 40mg/gallon. 60mg is 50% higher than that.

It is a known appetite suppressant at higher doses or for fish that don't tolerate it well. That is why I usually make sure they are eating and if showing no signs of illness, try to fatten them up for a couple weeks before introducing CP, especially if they were mail order. Your fish was clearly eating so not an issue for you but a general statement.
 
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Tenny

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In my opinion, 60mg/gallon CP is a little high. I know it has a pretty wide safety margin but 60mg/g is definitely the upper end of that safety margin. That high of a dose combined with all of the other medications you introduced I think overdosed him. Hopefully he can detox and come out ok. I have run a lot of fish through CP treatment and I usually run it at 40mg/gallon. 60mg is 50% higher than that.

It is a known appetite suppressant at higher doses or for fish that don't tolerate it well. That is why I usually make sure they are eating and if showing no signs of illness, try to fatten them up for a couple weeks before introducing CP, especially if they were mail order. Your fish was clearly eating so not an issue for you but a general statement.
Well he did so well in CP that's why I continued to push him onto the rest of the medicine. Like extremely aggressive eating enough to me questioning adding a trigger to a reef tank...

Even after he was on all the medicine for a few hours he was still eating. Too much too quick. He's doing "ok". Wouldn't describe him on his last leg, but wouldn't say he's doing great. He is eating at least again.
 

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gotta participate in this southside based thread.....

I have a hypotheses on seeded sponges based on my current QT experience. They'll get some bacteria in an established DT - but won't be heavily populated like you need for a standalone filter in your QT.
I had some sponges floating in my DT for a month or so, and had lackluster performance in QT - I still needed prime and water changes.
The in the observation QT, I put a sponge that I removed from the DT and put for a day in a pitcher of DT water and bacteria-in-a-bottle, with the air pump going and a little food. This time, the tank has not needed water changes and I dosed prime once.
My DT has a lot of live rock and an ATS and a skimmer. I turn those down because my stocking is light and the demand is low. But if my DT is managing waste efficiently, the sponge should only populate lightly - the tank has no need for additional bacteria. The idea of the pitcher was to get it to saturate and build a population.
 
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Tenny

Tenny

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gotta participate in this southside based thread.....

I have a hypotheses on seeded sponges based on my current QT experience. They'll get some bacteria in an established DT - but won't be heavily populated like you need for a standalone filter in your QT.
I had some sponges floating in my DT for a month or so, and had lackluster performance in QT - I still needed prime and water changes.
The in the observation QT, I put a sponge that I removed from the DT and put for a day in a pitcher of DT water and bacteria-in-a-bottle, with the air pump going and a little food. This time, the tank has not needed water changes and I dosed prime once.
My DT has a lot of live rock and an ATS and a skimmer. I turn those down because my stocking is light and the demand is low. But if my DT is managing waste efficiently, the sponge should only populate lightly - the tank has no need for additional bacteria. The idea of the pitcher was to get it to saturate and build a population.
I always heard it was 6+ weeks needed for the filter to be fully ready.

I usually just toss them into the sump and forget about them and never had too much of an issue. The concern I always have is how much this bacteria is eating away at the CP. So my water changes are more to sustain the CP level that I want, more than to remove Ammonia / Nitrite.

Fish is still doing well, he ********************* drives me crazy. He'll be laying on his side, upside down or something, then when I get up next to him he starts swimming around just fine. A google search said that's normal for them to lay on their side. Saw him attacking the air stone today, and he moved his elbow to the other side. He won't eat mysis, but will eat pellets. Not 100%, but slowly improving.
 
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Tenny

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Welp I think I figured out why he's been acting so weird...

1. Over-medication finally wore off.
2. Tank temperature was off, it was about 73-74.

When I went from the first QT to the second, I changed heaters. The second heater was set low (not sure why). The little stick on temperature gauged was reporting 82 so I just figured everything was fine. I wanted to do a bigger water change last night and when I went to check the temp with a infrared temp gun, it was reporting low. I checked all the other tanks and it was spot on with all the other tanks. So I increased the temperature and did a 40% water change. This morning he's def swimming around a lot better than he was yesterday. So I suspect it was one of the two.

Lesson learned, just bought several digital ones with little probes. 4 for like $10 is a no brainer. Just need to make sure I test them to verify the calibration.
 

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