soymilk
Supporting Member
wait til you ask him about calcium reactors vs dosing
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Nutrient management by Old School Reefer (1 Viewer)
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OP
OP
A friend in Sweden runs the state aquarium in Stockholm, he defined expert as someone who has made every possible error in a field of endevor. However I prefer this quote in his sigature.
“I am not young enough to know everything, but neither so old that I forgotten everything
Liberté, égalité, fraternité
Lol, I’m not trying to convince you to adopt “my way.”
Let me know when you want to compare Chemistry. You can try to convince me that weak chemistry is better for a reef, but I know better.
I test “inorganic” nutrients at my home. I think you’re confused. ICP detects atoms like phosphorus, regardless of chemical form. It can come from organic forms (Such as DNA, Phospholipids, etc...), but also inorganic phosphate.
Also, chemistry wins the day when it comes to Biome. An established system with better chemistry will always have a stronger Biome and Bacterial Diversity if everything else is the same.
BTW….your appeal to age (52 yrs of reefing) is a fallacy which is “commonly cited” across every message-board.
Your age or experience isn’t “evidence” for your position, and it definitely doesn’t make it superior. Good try though!
I’ve know many older reefers who still can’t grow coral, and I’ve seen reefers come in for 3 years and grow massive colonies.
You know what they say… “If their tank ain’t nice…don’t take their advice.”
OP
OP
Your assumptions that you are to viewed as an expert is far from realty. You are persistent.Lol, I’m not trying to convince you to adopt “my way.”
Let me know when you want to compare Chemistry. You can try to convince me that weak chemistry is better for a reef, but I know better.
I test “inorganic” nutrients at my home. I think you’re confused. ICP detects atoms like phosphorus, regardless of chemical form. It can come from organic forms (Such as DNA, Phospholipids, etc...), but also inorganic phosphate.
Also, chemistry wins the day when it comes to Biome. An established system with better chemistry will always have a stronger Biome and Bacterial Diversity if everything else is the same.
BTW….your appeal to age (52 yrs of reefing) is a fallacy which is “commonly cited” across every message-board.
Your age or experience isn’t “evidence” for your position, and it definitely doesn’t make it superior. Good try though!
I’ve know many older reefers who still can’t grow coral, and I’ve seen reefers come in for 3 years and grow massive colonies.
You know what they say… “If their tank ain’t nice…don’t take their advice.”
So now it’s only fair to post tank pics to compare yours to Subsea’sLol, I’m not trying to convince you to adopt “my way.”
Let me know when you want to compare Chemistry. You can try to convince me that weak chemistry is better for a reef, but I know better.
I test “inorganic” nutrients at my home. I think you’re confused. ICP detects atoms like phosphorus, regardless of chemical form. It can come from organic forms (Such as DNA, Phospholipids, etc...), but also inorganic phosphate.
Also, chemistry wins the day when it comes to Biome. An established system with better chemistry will always have a stronger Biome and Bacterial Diversity if everything else is the same.
BTW….your appeal to age (52 yrs of reefing) is a fallacy which is “commonly cited” across every message-board.
Your age or experience isn’t “evidence” for your position, and it definitely doesn’t make it superior. Good try though!
I’ve know many older reefers who still can’t grow coral, and I’ve seen reefers come in for 3 years and grow massive colonies.
You know what they say… “If their tank ain’t nice…don’t take their advice.”
OP
OP
I operated a Jaubert Plenum for 22 yrs with a 6” sandbed of 1-2mm aroggonite . At the time, denitrification by facultative bacteria was the goal.. The coarser substrate extended the low oxygen zone to maximize denitrification., but it also allowed detritus accumulation due to insufficient sandbed maintenance. Previously, I had relied on sandbed detrivores but to my constanation, a Melanurus Wrasse destroys my janitor population over a two year period.
Because denitrification is not my desired goal, I reduced sandbed depth to 2” and created a slight positive pressure in plenum void using oxygen rich tank water.
Because denitrification is not my desired goal, I reduced sandbed depth to 2” and created a slight positive pressure in plenum void using oxygen rich tank water.
PS: Fast growing macro & corals consume nitrogen faster than the food input requiring ammonia dosing to offset “macro going sexual”.
OP
OP
I am going to propose a parallel reefkeeping universe and call it Laissez Faire Method
Use ammonia to establish a powerful nitrogen cycle bacteria population in sandbed. Then get uncured diver collected rock from Gulf of Mexico. Maximize air gas exchange and provide brisk water circulation. Before putting rock in tank, remove unwanted macros, as there are plenty of variety. Unless sponges show obvious distress, I leave them on rock during the curing process. If an oxygen meter is available, it’s a good tool to evaluate how things are doing. BOD will be very high and air bubblers are an easy thing to add. Expect Amphipods & copepods but there should be so much more diversity. Use moderate light intensity on a reduced light schedule of 8-10 hrs. After a few weeks, when film algae is abundent to support snails get some. The only fish to get for 6 months is an algae Blenny.
With the abundent diversity on this live rock, I instantly had SPS, NPS, Gorgonians, Bryozones of many colors and so many filter feeders. Sadly many died because I did not feed them what they needed. Yet, others like yellow ball sponge and orange bryozoans recently appeared on rock after 3 years in tank. I have also rotated rock in tank and found new growth on the side out of view. With live rock of this quality, I allow for open spaces so each rock can develop its own fauna & fana for maximum diversity.
gulfliverock.com
gulfliverock.com
Nature is efficient at using energy and I choose to emulate nature. ICP test results with perfect parameters does not equal a perfect system and “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.
Use ammonia to establish a powerful nitrogen cycle bacteria population in sandbed. Then get uncured diver collected rock from Gulf of Mexico. Maximize air gas exchange and provide brisk water circulation. Before putting rock in tank, remove unwanted macros, as there are plenty of variety. Unless sponges show obvious distress, I leave them on rock during the curing process. If an oxygen meter is available, it’s a good tool to evaluate how things are doing. BOD will be very high and air bubblers are an easy thing to add. Expect Amphipods & copepods but there should be so much more diversity. Use moderate light intensity on a reduced light schedule of 8-10 hrs. After a few weeks, when film algae is abundent to support snails get some. The only fish to get for 6 months is an algae Blenny.
With the abundent diversity on this live rock, I instantly had SPS, NPS, Gorgonians, Bryozones of many colors and so many filter feeders. Sadly many died because I did not feed them what they needed. Yet, others like yellow ball sponge and orange bryozoans recently appeared on rock after 3 years in tank. I have also rotated rock in tank and found new growth on the side out of view. With live rock of this quality, I allow for open spaces so each rock can develop its own fauna & fana for maximum diversity.
Gulf Live Rock.com
Gulf Live Rock.com
Nature is efficient at using energy and I choose to emulate nature. ICP test results with perfect parameters does not equal a perfect system and “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.
OP
OP
The concept of reverse flow undergravel filter came from Old School cichlid fish keepers.
https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/PetSmart/5174813?$CLEARjpg$
Above is a standard ug plate with two uplift tubes powered by air pump. With that arrangement, water is drawn down into sandbed. Reverse the flow, with a pump into plenum and up thru sandbed. This helps to prevent clogging sandbed with ditritous.
I used eggcrate light diffuser with fiberglass window screen mesh on top of eggcrate. Use 1/2” PVC on its side to create void space of plenum. When sizing eggcrate, leave 1” from edge of glass to allow screen to be tucked in. This same 1” gap allows pump discharge plumbing to be run to center of plenum. The gap also hides eggcrate and nylon mesh so you only view substrate. Cover everything with 1”- 2” of aroggonite substrate.
https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/PetSmart/5174813?$CLEARjpg$
Above is a standard ug plate with two uplift tubes powered by air pump. With that arrangement, water is drawn down into sandbed. Reverse the flow, with a pump into plenum and up thru sandbed. This helps to prevent clogging sandbed with ditritous.
I used eggcrate light diffuser with fiberglass window screen mesh on top of eggcrate. Use 1/2” PVC on its side to create void space of plenum. When sizing eggcrate, leave 1” from edge of glass to allow screen to be tucked in. This same 1” gap allows pump discharge plumbing to be run to center of plenum. The gap also hides eggcrate and nylon mesh so you only view substrate. Cover everything with 1”- 2” of aroggonite substrate.
OP
OP
No doubt there are many successful ways to operate a marine aquarium. When I moved into my first home, I incorporated 150G in house display tank with 1500G extended refugiums and shallow frag tanks In my garage.
At that time, I was working as a Subsea Engineer for Transocean drilling on a 28 days on / 28 days off work schedule. With no automation & no commitment from my significant partner and no internet, refugiums were designed to feed display during absence of 28 days. With a system of easy colorful softies, in 40 years, I saw no reason to get excessive equipment to have success at Reefing.
OP
OP
One of the surprises reading de Goeij's paper on elemental cycling is sponges remove DOC in 30 minutes that takes the bacterioplankton 20 days, or about 1000X faster (pg 50). Seems to me a lot of the success attributed to skimmers should in reality be attributed to sponges.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponges. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)
OP
OP
I never read all of the research paper but my friend Timfish read all of it and he took me to school. I did watch the 20 minute video on coral nutrition which is for advanced hobbiest and presented in a very pragmatic way.
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Buddy, are you advocating the use of undergravel filters?
Did you take your water to the local fish shop to be tested?
OP
OP
Recenty, I was made aware of nutrient management that I actually had In my systems but never realized it.
To manage nutrients to combat a dinoflagellates outbreak, hobbiest dosed silicates to promote diatoms which were then eaten by janitors,
Makeup water comes from Middle Trinity Aquifer, which used to be a shallow inland sea that was fulll of diatoms which
It’s also worked for 51 years for Paul Baldassano.
www.reef2reef.com
To manage nutrients to combat a dinoflagellates outbreak, hobbiest dosed silicates to promote diatoms which were then eaten by janitors,
Makeup water comes from Middle Trinity Aquifer, which used to be a shallow inland sea that was fulll of diatoms which
yes to reverse flow thru undergravel substrate of aroggonite. It’s worked for me for 25 years. It’s the same tank in build thread.
It’s also worked for 51 years for Paul Baldassano.
Moving 47 year old reef 60 miles. OMG
So about six months ago our closest friends got a new Grand Son and he lives in Long Island right near where I live. Of course they wanted to see him all the time and they moved to Key Largo a couple of years ago so they bought a condo 60 miles east from my home out on Long Island in wine...
www.reef2reef.com
OP
OP
OP
OP
Bioindicators need interpretation.
Due to N limitation, Caulerpa Paspoidies is partially going sexual as it self prunes itself. If I don’t add ammonia, it’s possible for the complete colony to go sexual as a survival technique. On one occasion, I overlooked what you see in the picture, then later that day I noticed white fluid emitting from swollen stems along whole of colony. In that sceanario, I immediately added ammonia. I dose in a high flow area 10ml of ammonia twice a day during peak photosynthesis.
Due to N limitation, Caulerpa Paspoidies is partially going sexual as it self prunes itself. If I don’t add ammonia, it’s possible for the complete colony to go sexual as a survival technique. On one occasion, I overlooked what you see in the picture, then later that day I noticed white fluid emitting from swollen stems along whole of colony. In that sceanario, I immediately added ammonia. I dose in a high flow area 10ml of ammonia twice a day during peak photosynthesis.
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