Palladium vs Aluminum to push EV (1 Viewer)

[BigRick]

So palladium is mostly sourced from Russia as a by product of nickel. South Africa also producedes a lot of Palladium, but not as much. With the recent stoppage of metals/minerals coming out of Russia, South America says they cannot make up the lost production.

Palladium is what is found in catalytic converters to reduce emissions. Now they wanna use aluminum instead. Can we say THERMITE waiting to happen and burn up gas cars more then EV cars. Will be a great selling point to move away from gas cars....

Crap never stops with this NWO coalition. Europe is frantically changing its future of tech going back to the industrial age to produce offensive and defensive weapons as fast as they can.

 

[webster1234]

I was reading this article about how much waste and pollution actually goes in to making a battery for an electric vehicle. If true, the waste and pollution is mind boggling. There is nothing "green" about it IMO.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[frankc]

I read where Volvo did a careful study on the making of two very similar models they have - one gas and one electric. They found making the electric one produced about 70% more pollution than making the gas model. Either that or it took 70% more energy to produce, I can't remember for sure.

 

[Tangs]

 

[BigRick]

It's the batteries and chips being produced that make carbon emissions so much worse vs the life of a gas car. EV cars use about 20x semi chips then traditional cars. Hybrids are the worst.

All these people who want EV and no more oil let me ask this. How you gonna grease the bearings? How you gonna make plastics for the car? So many by-products of oil needed to make EV.

 

[BigRick]

Still got to make palladium...

 

[foos]

I read where Volvo did a careful study on the making of two very similar models they have - one gas and one electric. They found making the electric one produced about 70% more pollution than making the gas model. Either that or it took 70% more energy to produce, I can't remember for sure.

Volvo says electric car making emissions are 70% HIGHER than petrol

Volvo said the C40 Recharge has a far lower carbon footprint during 'use phase' and if clean energy was used things would improve.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

70% more energy to produce and assuming all grid energy is fossil fuels about 70k miles for break even, 30k if you charge with emission free. Volvo is actually arguing for more emission free electricity production so that the break even is much lower and overall emissions can be reduced faster.

Volvo Cars calls for more clean energy investment to realise full climate potential of electric cars

Volvo Cars today calls on world leaders and energy providers to significantly boost investments in clean energy, in order for its and other electric cars to deliver on their true potential in terms of climate benefit.

www.media.volvocars.com

The car seems new so I could not find much info on it, but what I did find suggests the efficiency is horrible. Their study also seems to use worst case assumptions. For a Tesla model 3 the break even can be as low as 13k miles.

 

[Tangs]

Plus you have to consider that for countries like China that burns a lot of coal to make electricity..Ontario closed their coal burning generating stations down years ago. And cars of today do not pollute anywhere near what they used to.

 

[foos]

An electric car ran off nothing but coal power will still emit less pollution over its life due to how efficient it is. Thing is, an electric car does not care where the electricity comes from, coal, gas, wind, nuclear, solar, hydro, hamsters in wheels, it is all the same to the car. Your gas car on the other hand needs gas for the life of it. Sure, you can use ethanol, but I prefer crop land be used for food, and there just is not enough crop waste to fuel our cars.

 

[Tangs]

Yes but I am saying that electricity can be dirty too. You can get clean electricity from a dam for example rather than burning coal.

 

[foos]

I'm not saying the grid is clean, it is far from it. I am saying that burning gas at power plants and using it to power electric cars is more efficient and uses less gas overall. Yes I know they are different types of gas. I am also saying that the grid can be cleaned up over time making those electric cars cleaner but a gas car does not get cleaner over time.

 

[BigRick]

Your missing the point. Its the building of EV components that produce the most of the emissions.

 

[webster1234]

Your missing the point. Its the building of EV components that produce the most of the emissions.

This^^^^^^^^
Plus, I read stories where thieves are cutting the copper wires from the charging stations to sell as scrap copper. I'm sure some day the challenge will be solved, just like they eventually did with the LED light bulb. The older members here will remember the cluster we went thru when they tried to make us get rid of the incandescent light bulb. We just ain't there yet.

Maybe when they figure out how to build an arc reactor like Tony Stark did, we ill be there.

 

[Tangs]

Yes we are saying the same things. You have to look at the whole picture....which includes which is less destructive to the environment to build. To run and how the electricity is produced. As well what is left after its life cycle is done.

 

[foos]

Your missing the point. Its the building of EV components that produce the most of the emissions.

But over the lifetime of it the emissions are less. A lot of the extra emissions are from mining the minerals to make the batteries and that can be recycled reducing the impact of future electric cars. There are already recycling plants spinning up that get better than 90% recovery from batteries and sell the minerals back to battery makers for a profit.

 

[foos]

This^^^^^^^^
Plus, I read stories where thieves are cutting the copper wires from the charging stations to sell as scrap copper. I'm sure some day the challenge will be solved, just like they eventually did with the LED light bulb. The older members here will remember the cluster we went thru when they tried to make us get rid of the incandescent light bulb. We just ain't there yet.

Maybe when they figure out how to build an arc reactor like Tony Stark did, we ill be there.

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying we are not ready for electric cars because people steal copper? People steal and have stolen catalytic converters since they became a thing. As long as our society leaves people behind, things of value that are hard to trace will be stolen.

 

[webster1234]

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying we are not ready for electric cars because people steal copper? People steal and have stolen catalytic converters since they became a thing. As long as our society leaves people behind, things of value that are hard to trace will be stolen.

I'm saying that when the LED light bulb was first introduced, they were expensive and didn't work very well. In fact, they were so bad that the government had to mandate their use and eventually ban the incandescent bulb. Eventually, technology caught up and today, I wouldn't use anything but a LED bulb.

I think the same goes for electric vehicles. Some day, the batteries will be cheaper to produce and will last longer. The part about them stealing the copper was just funny. Same with stealing a catalytic converter. If mine were stolen, I would go back with a test pipe like in the old days. I'm sure there's a computer fix to get around the O2 sensors.

One sure fire way to keep the economically disadvantaged from stealing your stuff is to take away the incentive to do it. ie. no catalytic converter on my car....nothing to steal. If the government wants to force me to have one on my car and then one of the people that their society left behind steals it, then the government can buy me a new one.

 

[foos]

Yeah, first led bulbs were garbage but they were actually getting really good from decent brands before they were mandated. Problem is the first were garbage and a lot of people did not want to give them a try again. I mean, if you spent $20 on a bulb that flickered, was off colored, and burnt out in a week it is going to take a lot to convince you to give them another try. Some of them are still garbage in some situations, mainly dimmable ones that run off a dimmer switch. Trust me, it can be a royal pain to find a dimmer switch you like, then a bulb that works on it without flickering. Smart dimming bulbs where the bulb dims itself are great though.

I think electric cars are at or near that tipping point. Plenty of people that have gotten over 100k miles on a Tesla and posted still having over 80% range. So long as you do not have a really long commute and have an outlet at home and can afford a car that costs that much, they kinda make sense. A coworker of mine wants one, but he is a case where it does not make sense. We work from home and he lives in an appt where he cannot park near an outlet. Can't charge at home, can't charge at work, doesn't make sense for him at all.

Tesla is supposed to be using LFP in standard range cars soon and I think if they can do that at a good price it will be the one that makes them make sense for almost everyone. No cobalt so no risk of child labor produced cobalt which is a big issue that companies are trying to address by ensuring cobalt is not sourced from areas that use child labor, reducing the amount used, getting mines started in other locations, and just getting away from using it. LFP is also more resilient and I would not be surprised if LFP battery cars can get 500k miles and still have over 80% range.

 

[webster1234]

Just like the light bulbs, when we get there, I might consider one.

 

[BigRick]

But over the lifetime of it the emissions are less. A lot of the extra emissions are from mining the minerals to make the batteries and that can be recycled reducing the impact of future electric cars. There are already recycling plants spinning up that get better than 90% recovery from batteries and sell the minerals back to battery makers for a profit.

It all sounds good but I don't want to be the next Europe. We have over 150 yrs of oil just in the USA. There's is no rush unless you Greta. It's a politics.. politicians lining their pockets.

Ever read Rich Dad Poor Dad?