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Pay It Forward (PIF) Program Guidelines/Theory/Concept (1 Viewer)

HorseyStripe

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DISCLAIMER: M.A.R.S.H. has no responsibility and/or liability for this program, it's just something we decided to try and do...if others want to catch the "fever" all responsibility is placed the individual and they take all risk, damages, and losses involved herin upon themselves...

Credit for this idea is given to Tempset, whose original thread can be found HERE.

Now that I've gotten all the items that make me feel better out of the way, we'll begin.

Starting with the easiest way i've found to explain it:
Tempset said:
...this plan would not include expecting anything in return.

The entire definition of pay it forward is giving something away with no expectation of something in return.

A proper description of this would be as follows:

1. Original coral colony owner would frag his/her colony and give it freely to ANY participating member of MARSH. this would be fully documented & publicly announced.

2. Once the person who RECEIVED the coral has grown it enough, they pass the VERY SAME CORAL onto someone else to do the same thing.

[shadow=orange:c3021b4da7]Definitions:[/shadow:c3021b4da7]

Sponsor - The person who originally gives a coral frag to another person.
Member - Paid M.A.R.S.H. member. It is recommended that corals be given to Members, but not necessary.
PIF - An acronym commonly used to refer to a piece of coral that has been given, or the action of giving a frag to another person. This is also used as abbreviation for Pay It Forward Program.
PIF Day - Every Monday, the day of the week that PIFs should be added to the M.A.R.S.H. website.
The Spreadsheet - A google spreadsheet documenting PIFs that come in. Kept HERE for your viewing pleasure.
CORAL-LINE- Essentially "bloodline" of a coral colony. Kept in The Spreadsheet.
Foster Parent - Recipient of a coral frag. Until the frag is "re-PIF'd" the person growing it is considered the Foster Parent.

[shadow=orange:c3021b4da7]There are multiple purposes behind PIF:[/shadow:c3021b4da7]
  • 1. To show some measure of kindness within the M.A.R.S.H. community.
    2. To share knowledge and information with other people within the M.A.R.S.H. community
    3. To allow tracking of each individual frag of coral and hopefully gain knowledge and understanding of how different coral species live and grow.
    4. To indirectly affect the membership and involvement within the M.A.R.S.H. community.

[shadow=orange:c3021b4da7]Yet more concepts stolen from Tempset:[/shadow:c3021b4da7]
Tempset said:
...Some reasons you should not participate in this program:

If you can't grow coral... you shouldn't participate.
If you can't get around town on your own(like me)... You shouldn't participate.
If you feel the ONLY way to get beautiful & rare corals is to buy them online or in a store...
If you feel that your lifestyle or work will hinder your involvement in the program...
If you feel everyone is as dishonest as you are...(tricky one here)
If you can't stand waiting in long lines..(then just go buy the coral)....

I don't care if your new here, own a 500gal system with lights that would make a football stadium jealous, or if your just the average Joe hobbyists.

[shadow=orange:c3021b4da7]NOW...on to the actual substance of this post:[/shadow:c3021b4da7]

  • STEP 1: Pick a coral from your tank you'd like to PIF.

    STEP 2: Frag the coral.

    STEP 3: On a PIF Day post your coral frag in the Propagation and Breeding Forum under a new thread. YOU GET TO CHOOSE THE NAME OF YOUR CORAL-LINE.

    STEP 4: Wait until Wednesday morning and see who has posted interest in your coral, select one of the interested parties and set up a time to make the exchange/pickup. (It is highly recommended that corals only be given to Members...although ultimately it is up to the Sponsor)

    STEP 5: Update The Spreadsheet with your coral, if you need help with this, contact Horseystripe.

    STEP 6: Remember, you're GIVING AWAY A PIECE OF CORAL...with only the expectation that the person you're giving it to will do the same before they try to sell any of it or whatever they want.

[glow=red:c3021b4da7]RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE FOSTER PARENT:[/glow:c3021b4da7]

1. PRIOR TO EXPRESSING INTEREST IN A CORAL, at least have a basic understanding of the care for each coral you're requesting AND ensure you have the minimum requirements.
2. If you have a question, ASK. There are no dumb questions.
3. To the best of your ability, raise any coral given to you to a size capable of being cut into frags, and then PIF again.
4. Update, at reasonable intervals, the Sponsor who gave you the coral.
5. Post, Post, Post, remain active!
 
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HorseyStripe

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PIF FAQ:

Q: If someone PIFs me a coral, can I sell it?
A:
Ostentum said:
Here is my stance. If I pay for it, i am going to do with it what I want, weather its put it in the perfect place in my tank, stick in the sump, frag it, sell it, give it away, flush it, set it in the sun, feed it to the dog, grind it up and snort it, you get the point. Now if a frag is given to me as part of a program or given to me and asked to not sell it then i have to respect the original person who gave it up. Once money is involved anything goes. And before anyone says anything about ethics, I had to take several ethics class and sign an ethics conduct for the profession i chose. Again once someone puts a price on that thing, all is fair since they are out to profit.
gabe_j said:
...now say something hardcore happens and i need alot of money asap. i'd sell off all of my corals that i paid for and own. and ask the original pif donor if they are ok with me selling what was given for me after i pif a couple of frags and such.

also once its out of my hands i've learned to let happen what may if i don't like it oh well there really isn't much i can do anyways. i would think if someone needed the cash bad enough and sold what i gave them. well thats life. i'm not gonna bash on them for doing it they apperently did what the felt they had to do to get by or whatever and i'm not gonna judge that.

now if some d-bag is just selling pif frags just because yeah i'm gonna make it known who they are and what they are doing it because at that point its not about survival its about greed and i'm not down with that...

Q:
soymilk said:
snorting coral dust eh?...
A: NO...it's bad for you!

Q:
karlo said:
I have a question about the following line:

"1. Original coral colony owner would frag his/her colony and give it freely to ANY participating member of MARSH. this would be fully documented & publicly announced. "

I have seen that some PIF coral have been given just to ANYbody but are you guys asking if their system is ready for the coral?...
A: It is the responsibility of each donor and each recipient to ensure that the coral is well taken care of and that care requirements are met. We are unable to qualify each individual who is a member of MARSH, let alone keep a running database as extensive as this would be. As such, this process has been left up to the individuals involved in the transaction. Please keep in mind that the final "O.K." on corals goes to the donor.
 

soymilk

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reserved :bootyshake:

i want to forbid the use of blue font in an article. Made me hover over it 3 times thinking it was a link! lol i got pwned. I also want to note I coined PIF... so all royalties go to me. Patent pending. Thanks for putting everything in a nice thread horsey.

p.s. i wanna forbid that color as well. :lol:
 

Scott

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gabe_j said:
PIF® sorry guys i bought it it's mine now suck on that.

LOL, You've got some nerve but no worries.... You just bought PIF (which sounds like pffft). I made a few calls and got P.I.F.® so we are still in good shape.
 

gabe_j

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as long as you make sure to use those ... everytime i won't sue. i will be watching.
 

soymilk

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I'll make sure to pay forward it. aka PFI®

Join my new club.... Great Times, Friends Only aka GTFO.
 

gabe_j

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hahaghahah!! oh sh!t that made me almost shoot spageheti outta my nose damn it trung!
 

karlo

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I have a question about the following line:

"1. Original coral colony owner would frag his/her colony and give it freely to ANY participating member of MARSH. this would be fully documented & publicly announced. "

I have seen that some PIF coral have been given just to ANYbody but are you guys asking if their system is ready for the coral?

If I had some SPS to give (which I have) I would want to know if who I'm giving it to has a system to grow it out and not a new setup and just kill it in a few days.

I just think that for the PIF to work for a long run that question needs to be asked at least for certain types of coral. There should be somewhere where you keep a check on the coral to see how it's doing and if dead then make a note of it on the spreadsheet.

just my .02
 
R

RocketSurgeon

karlo said:
I have seen that some PIF coral have been given just to ANYbody but are you guys asking if their system is ready for the coral?

I think it has been discussed on several occasions, but not formally written into the equation. From my understanding it is at the owners discretion who gets what.
It's our part to research coral before asking, and it's your part to ensure we are ready before giving.

I know, not long ago, I was asked how mine were doing, and to post a current picture. I think it is an individual task, not a group as a whole.

Perhaps, we could post monthly pictures of received frags for updates?
 

DustinB

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RocketSurgeon said:
Perhaps, we could post monthly pictures of received frags for updates?

That would be pretty cool. It could have the added benefit of seeing how a given coral does in different tanks, growth rate color etc...
 

RGH69

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karlo said:
If I had some SPS to give (which I have) I would want to know if who I'm giving it to has a system to grow it out and not a new setup and just kill it in a few days.

I agree, it is critical that we qualify folks or they have a freind with a more mature tank keep the coral until their tank is mature enough. For example, I am keeping another members frags in my frag tank until his tank matures.
 
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HorseyStripe

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RGH69 said:
karlo said:
If I had some SPS to give (which I have) I would want to know if who I'm giving it to has a system to grow it out and not a new setup and just kill it in a few days.

I agree, it is critical that we qualify folks or they have a freind with a more mature tank keep the coral until their tank is mature enough. For example, I am keeping another members frags in my frag tank until his tank matures.

i agree with that to an extent...question is: who gets to qualify each member? and where are we going to keep this log? this question has been brought up before...if you want to make someone the "qualifier" it would have to be someone who volunteers and can be dedicated to it...that's a LOT of pressure...

the only way i see to effectively, and efficiently do this is to make each member responsible for whomever he/she gives the piece to...that way we don't have to play "the big green meanie" and label each other publicly...i would say that if you see something that doesn't look quite right, shoot that person a PM and see what thier plans are, or post under their request...

it is the responsiblity of both the recipient and the donor to ensure proper care will be given to the coral...just like buying something from the store...

and Robert, i'm glad to hear that i figured thats what was going on, and debated on saying something myself, i'm pretty sure i know what/who you're talking about...
 

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