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So since this is freshwater figure maybe it should be here?

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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
Coming back to the beginning that ppl mentioned that having fresh water biotope as for plants is easy...........
I knew better and my good friend Miguel who has a lot of experience as well in this planted fresh water thingie said the same thing.
Yes with salt water you need more equipment to keep it rolling but the chemistry is nothing different.
You want to keep curtain fish or shrimp it's a whole different ball game.

If you already put that chemical in no biggie, I have given you the three months to cycle out all the bad stuff and that will be gone by that time.
Just wonder why you use that stuff to speed up the cycle Honestly I thought the chlorine in the tap water would kill the good bacteria that was in the Eco Complete........... correct for not stressing or for that matter killing your fish or other livestock members that hobbyist put in after rushing to the LFS after a week, yes that counts for salt water as well. I rush over there to have the water tested. LOL
Of course the fish can survive but ever thought about nerve damage or brain damage............ we possibility can't know and that's a good thing but just stop there for a minute what these poor fish going through in a short period of time.

So no dumping water out, keep hands out the water an let it do it's thing. Does this include not putting in plants? Is it bad if I am cleaning off the leaves? Am I messing up yet again? Also was going to look into the CO2 thing do I need to stay away from that right now too? Was going to research the DIY ones.
Test only for a PH drop as you want to go in the direction of 7ppm and lower when we talking delicate shrimp here.
But there are ways to do so and stay there, but not necessary to bring this up as you are not ready for it. I think I saw some peat pellets on the net do they look like balls?

Soaking it in a body of water that most of the tannins are out of there and after a week or so sticking it in a HOB filter will help you big time on the PH.
The leaching out from the peat moss has many different positive reactions on your habitat.
The bad part is that your water looks kind of yellowish but and blocks some of the light.
IME it won't be a bad thing.
I have one of those filters that will finely filter have the feeling that is bad to use huh?

Here you will find a lot of info and if you have more questions shoot them a email, Ron McGee is a good friend of me and we have done great things for this hobby.

Planet Inverts Home .:. Freshwater Aquarium Shrimp, Crystal Red Shrimp, Red Cherry Shrimp, Crayfish and more.

Alpha Pro Breeders
Now on to read the sites!
 

Diesel

Moved On
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
If you like the HIGH $$$ shrimp I would suggest shrimp only.
All fish eat shrimp, if you get baby shrimp the fish most likely will snack on it.
 
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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
I don't know I am still trying to just read up on them. All I have seen are blues and cherry at any LFS. Every time I see one I like a lot turns out it is salt! LOL!
 
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Carrie Jo

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Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
Well now I know why you didn't see my comments even though on my computer I put my answers mixed in your text in a different color now that I look back on it in text talk everything is in black.

I was under the impression that if I put chlorine in there it would destroy the good bacteria from the eco complete. Does it? Is it bad to add bacteria? I wasn't trying to "hurry to be finished cycling I was trying to get it going so it would be stabilised and established longer." What is 3 months when almost 2 years have gone by.

I did get plants because part of me is just in desperate need of doing something I love for myself. Any moms out there know what I mean?

I hope when you said keep my hands out of the tank the plants are okay or do I need to move them while the tank cycles?

I also have been putting my hands in there cleaning off the leaves of the plants. Am I messing up the chemistry? Is this okay?

If not should I move them and use the prime stuff to keep my plants alive without messing up the cycle? I don't want to kill my plants even though it is obvious I think some of the plants might not work.
 
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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
If you like the HIGH $$$ shrimp I would suggest shrimp only.
All fish eat shrimp, if you get baby shrimp the fish most likely will snack on it.
Okay I did some research on the shrimp. I really think they would be nice in the tank but that being said I do not want the tank being shrimp only. And also if the ph and temperatures are not the same for peaceful tank I don't want to do those shrimp because as much as I think the cardinal shrimp are pretty as they are need hotter temperatures and ph than the fish I really want. I figure if that counts me out it would probably count others out as well.

Had an idea of maybe picking one I like that is a prolific breeder and falls in the diameters that the peaceful fish I like and if I breed them in a smaller tank and fix the 92 with enough hiding spots and such maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Then again maybe that is mean?

But I used to buy ghost shrimp for a turtle that my hubby and I found drowning in a pond due to fishing lines, yes we feed him pellets too and if I can remember right some veggies, the shrimp where a treat. Back in those days you could get 20 for a buck. We had him for over 2 years took his foot forever to heal and he went from a 10 gallon to a 40 before he was released back into the wild. (technically I put him in the backyard to run around while we where moving in the house and he ran off.) Can't believe he slipped through the fence somehow as big as he got. He was a baby when we found him. He was a red ear.

So the other problem is trying to keep new genes in the mix as I go so the gene structure doesn't go down and end up with a weaker and more disease prone. I never breed bother and sister in birds don't think it would be healthy here either and the rarer the shrimp the less opportunity to keep new genes coming in.

So there is a hummmm.
Any what about only seeing the shrimp on a computer screen. Not the same as in person. HUMMMM

Then there is figuring out what all this means: and this is just 2 yellow ones. I think I better figure out the fish in the tank first because I bet there is a lot I am not realizing with these numbers down here I bet I better figure it out with the fish.


  • Neocaridina Davidi (Heteropoda)
  • Temp: 64-84°F
  • pH: 6.0-8.0
  • TDS: 80-400
  • KH: 0-10
  • GH: 4-14


  • Caridina Serrata
  • Temp: 64-78°F
  • pH: 6.2-7.8
  • TDS: 80-220
  • KH: 0-2
  • GH: 6-10
 
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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
Okay I did some research on the shrimp. I really think they would be nice in the tank but that being said I do not want the tank being shrimp only. And also if the ph and temperatures are not the same for peaceful tank I don't want to do those shrimp because as much as I think the cardinal shrimp are pretty as they are need hotter temperatures and ph than the fish I really want. I figure if that counts me out it would probably count others out as well.

Had an idea of maybe picking one I like that is a prolific breeder and falls in the diameters that the peaceful fish I like and if I breed them in a smaller tank and fix the 92 with enough hiding spots and such maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Then again maybe that is mean?

But I used to buy ghost shrimp for a turtle that my hubby and I found drowning in a pond due to fishing lines, yes we feed him pellets too and if I can remember right some veggies, the shrimp where a treat. Back in those days you could get 20 for a buck. We had him for over 2 years took his foot forever to heal and he went from a 10 gallon to a 40 before he was released back into the wild. (technically I put him in the backyard to run around while we where moving in the house and he ran off.) Can't believe he slipped through the fence somehow as big as he got. He was a baby when we found him. He was a red ear.

So the other problem is trying to keep new genes in the mix as I go so the gene structure doesn't go down and end up with a weaker and more disease prone. I never breed bother and sister in birds don't think it would be healthy here either and the rarer the shrimp the less opportunity to keep new genes coming in.

So there is a hummmm.
Any what about only seeing the shrimp on a computer screen. Not the same as in person. HUMMMM

Then there is figuring out what all this means: and this is just 2 yellow ones. I think I better figure out the fish in the tank first because I bet there is a lot I am not realizing with these numbers down here I bet I better figure it out with the fish.


  • Neocaridina Davidi (Heteropoda)
  • Temp: 64-84°F
  • pH: 6.0-8.0
  • TDS: 80-400
  • KH: 0-10
  • GH: 4-14


  • Caridina Serrata
  • Temp: 64-78°F
  • pH: 6.2-7.8
  • TDS: 80-220
  • KH: 0-2
  • GH: 6-10
Well some of the plants are not doing so well. You would think if I could keep plants alive out of water I could do it in water? Not sure it is is from the lights being on only 4 hours or me using wrong bulb 1st couple of days.

I need clean up crews! Too many leaves to clean off.

I did finally figure out the rock to hold down the wood issue. I was concern putting something in there that might raise the ph then I remembered the filter bag and the bag of lava rocks I washed and boiled so I filled the filtersock tied it and dropped it on the driftwood. YEA! the only other rock I have that might be safe is rose quartz and it is too big. The others I have no clue about what my rocks are to know it ph is ok except that jasper is not so that doesn't do much good.

The only thing I can think of that might hurt the plants is the alk being high.
 
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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
Okay took the time to write down all the plants I have thus far:
Anubias Barteri Round (Golden Coin)
Anubias barteri nana petite
Anubias coffeefolia
Amazon Sword (Echinodorus Amazonicus)
Amazon Sword (Echinodorus bleheri)
Bucephalandra "Wavy Green) (Low CO2 requirements, still like the red one but can't find it locally)
Cryptocoryne wendtii (It said I got the red one not sure)
Hygrophila pinnatifida (medium CO2 requirements)
Java Moss (looked so much better at ADG I am convinced it is the CO2 because my java was wonderful looking
when I brought it home and it is on the top part as well as the bottom of my tank and the color is not what it was)
Rotala wallichii (it has high CO2 requirements don't think it likes my tank much)
Utricularia Graminifolia (Medium CO2 requirements. This one is such a beautiful light grassy green!!!)

I think the plant guy at ADG is so very right certain plants may grow okay without CO2 but they do so much better with it. I still cannot believe the difference in the Java Moss. It's like comparing surviving to Completely Ecstatically Happy! First time I even heard of it was on here when ****************** mentioned it! I was like what??? Why would you need that??? Now I understand and realize it's merit and see it's real value. I think I went down the rabbit hole....
 
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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
very cool.. I really like planted tanks....
Me too but after seeing what some people do with them it blows me away!!! I never even dreamed they could look that nice. I think I better figure out a way to rig up some kind of CO2 on the little 29 gallon. But I think I might have just found out I am out of time or soon will be at least for now. Hopefully I can get the little plant stand glued up though it will still have to sit out of the tank for a while to "cure"

I bought a CO2 piece of junk on clearance at petco but it really doesn't look like it would last. Don't know if I should try it or return it for my 12 bucks or cannibalize it for the blowing bubbles in the water part? Read too many people said they ran out of CO2 in a day to 2 weeks either way that is not good with a tiny I think it was 45 grams.

Found a decent CO2 regulator but doesn't have the low pressure or the needle part and what ever else not to mention a CO2 tank. If we are about to go through what I think we are rigging something up with yeast and sugar will not work I won't be available that much.

Ordered some plant glue might try to do some of that Thursday if it comes in tomorrow like it is suppose to if I manage to I will try to post pics.

Hopefully in a week and a half I should know where we stand but you never know one time we where up in the air for at least 3 months AGGRAVATING to say the least. I should not have started reading test results this late at night. Not that I didn't put together what was in there just different when you see it staring at you in black and white. Ignorance is truly bliss sometimes at lest for a short period of time. Sometimes I just wish my hubby and I could run away together from it not that it would do any good but might be fun trying! Reminds me of when my grandma would tell my grandpa she was going to run away from him (she was in her late 70's or early 80's) He would reply, "Can I go with you?" and she would think for a second and say yes! (mind you she could no longer drive either)
 

PorpoiseHork

Director
Board Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Location
Spring Branch
Looks really nice. I always loved having planted tanks when I was still doing fresh for my main display. I still have planted tanks for my office and my wife and daughters tanks as well. One addition for shrimp I found to be very active and long lived are Amano shrimp. They are not all that colorful but they are extremely active during the day and do a fairly good job at picking algae off of the plants. As for a cleanup crew my standard set is always a handful of nerite snails, bristle-nose placo, and a pair of emerald coreys. All are very good at keeping the tank clean and are all long lived. Mystery snails while they get big cannot come close to consuming algae like nerites.

Also I have like 6-7 female guppy's that I need to re-home fairly soon. They are all about 1.5" long and have either yellow or blue spotted tails. You can have them if you want.
 
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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
Looks really nice. I always loved having planted tanks when I was still doing fresh for my main display. I still have planted tanks for my office and my wife and daughters tanks as well. One addition for shrimp I found to be very active and long lived are Amano shrimp. They are not all that colorful but they are extremely active during the day and do a fairly good job at picking algae off of the plants. As for a cleanup crew my standard set is always a handful of nerite snails, bristle-nose placo, and a pair of emerald coreys. All are very good at keeping the tank clean and are all long lived. Mystery snails while they get big cannot come close to consuming algae like nerites.

Also I have like 6-7 female guppy's that I need to re-home fairly soon. They are all about 1.5" long and have either yellow or blue spotted tails. You can have them if you want.
Thanks but I have done guppies a while back. As a matter of fact gave some to someone onetime next thing I knew she had like 50 in her tank. Not that I could ever count them. Staying away from molleys as well. Really leaning towards the peaceful small tetras. But really need to get the big tank fixed. And maybe a few showy fish.

Yes I kept researching shrimp and I am also leaning towards the Amano shrimp instead of the fancy colorful ones. I don't think I have time now to raise any babies with things being uncertain.

But I am using this smaller tank trying to get plants ready for the bigger tank. It was suppose to be my saltwater sump. LOL repurposed...

Bought quite a few tissue culture plants. They are tiny.

I ordered flourish plant glue I hope it is truly safe. I hope to get my driftwood out and do some gluing of the tiny plants onto it then again I will see how many the tray that is 3 inches by 24 inches can hold. I do hope I can keep the pretty grass and other high CO2 alive dispite not having co2. The hygrophila pinnatifida is starting to show growth. I can't get over the cheerful green of the utricularia graminifolia. Figure I would put the anubias in dark areas or at the base of the driftwood. It still floats but seems to not float as much if that makes any sense.

Thanks so much for the clean up crew ideas I will try to look them up soon.
 

PorpoiseHork

Director
Board Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Location
Spring Branch
No problem on the cleanup crew ideas. You can still get the fancy shrimp like crystal reds and such, but you have to be careful of the fish you put in there. Most of the ornamental shrimp don't get much larger than 1" in size so they turn into a nice snack for the larger fish. For the driftwood it will want to float for up to 2-3 weeks until it is fully saturated. You can also use small pieces of dry rock and fishing line for things like the Anubias. I also used very thing fishing line to tie plants to my driftwood instead of glue. Last thing is for any tannins released by the wood that will make your tank look like it is filled with weak tea, use Purigen. I had a large piece of wood that I must have boiled a dozen times and it still kept leaching into the tank. Nothing I tried would clear the water up until I tried Purigen. That stuff is amazing, it cleared my tank up to crystal clear from a medium tea color within 24 hours. It did require me cycling pouches out monthly for about 6 months until the wood stopped leaching, but the clarity was amazing.

The most notable setup I had was a sorority beta school with 14 female betas in it. They were a lot of fun as I could cup my hand right at the water line and about half of them would jump into my hand and say hi to me then wriggle and jump back out. The only thing to note is you have to add them all at the same time to avoid territorial issues. Otherwise a clear view into box is a must. I also had a small school of Cardinal Tetras and the very hard to find Rasbora Hengeli's. They are similar to the lamb chop rasboras, except they have this almost highlighter orange coloring to them where the other varieties are a muted orange or red hue.
 
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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
No problem on the cleanup crew ideas. You can still get the fancy shrimp like crystal reds and such, but you have to be careful of the fish you put in there. Most of the ornamental shrimp don't get much larger than 1" in size so they turn into a nice snack for the larger fish. For the driftwood it will want to float for up to 2-3 weeks until it is fully saturated. You can also use small pieces of dry rock and fishing line for things like the Anubias. I also used very thing fishing line to tie plants to my driftwood instead of glue. Last thing is for any tannins released by the wood that will make your tank look like it is filled with weak tea, use Purigen. I had a large piece of wood that I must have boiled a dozen times and it still kept leaching into the tank. Nothing I tried would clear the water up until I tried Purigen. That stuff is amazing, it cleared my tank up to crystal clear from a medium tea color within 24 hours. It did require me cycling pouches out monthly for about 6 months until the wood stopped leaching, but the clarity was amazing.

The most notable setup I had was a sorority beta school with 14 female betas in it. They were a lot of fun as I could cup my hand right at the water line and about half of them would jump into my hand and say hi to me then wriggle and jump back out. The only thing to note is you have to add them all at the same time to avoid territorial issues. Otherwise a clear view into box is a must. I also had a small school of Cardinal Tetras and the very hard to find Rasbora Hengeli's. They are similar to the lamb chop rasboras, except they have this almost highlighter orange coloring to them where the other varieties are a muted orange or red hue.
I will have to check on when I put the driftwood in there. I could not boil it. It was way to large to fit in my largest stock pot. I have had so much trouble trying to get the ph down. I have done RODI changes one time 25% another almost 50% and another 25% maybe I should take in another sample to the LFS to see if they can come up with a more accurate PH number but to me it looks blueish then kinda greenish but not sure where to put it on the RODI looks like 6.6 to me just tested it.

I did order peat pellets gave up on the RODI changes even though I am still going to be topping off and doing changes with RODI.

I wonder if the substrate is the problem or the wood though it was my understanding that it would lower things. I was very stupid in getting 3 ocats too soon and I obviously didn't realize at least one of them had ick. I am so upset with myself I didn't notice it till after a few days of getting a few tetra and then seeing one spot on only one of them, then looking all over for the others found that one of the ocats had so many spots on him. So I figure the ick had to be from the ocat or my stupidity not waiting 3 months. I know I did the floating the bag deal right because I timed it being it has been years since I bought a fish. So I know one of the Ocats is dead one is missing the other one has dots all over him and I just have something else to cry about.

I tried some ick med and did the repeat dosage after a 24 hours and 25% water change. I know there is plenty of food there is algae all over the plants and driftwood.

I am trying to save the few fish left. Bought a different med from marineland but I have to get more RODI water and I am thinking I should probably do more than a 25 percent water change before re-medicating but I just don't know.

If I don't get it under control before the 24th then the poor little fish will probably be doomed as I will be crazy busy with 3 dr appointments that day one for me 2 for my hubby.

I really thought I was getting somewhere but finding a floating fish today tells me otherwise. I sure hope I didn't lose 2 ocats but I can only see one now.

If I loose everything I don't know what to do to disinfect the tank? If I leave it with nothing but plants and snails will the ich die after a month or can it live on in snails?

I think I really took for granted having an old set up tank for so very long that was so established and how much it must have made a difference.

Make matters worse don't know what the meds will to to the tank. ETC big avalanche.
 

Luman01

Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Location
Richmond
Why is all the post in this thread so long lol! Not to be mean but I wanna read them but they never stop lol! H
 

Luman01

Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Location
Richmond
lol its fine! No need to say sorry it's just a bit funny to me! That's it! I was also being captain obvious! Lol
 

PorpoiseHork

Director
Board Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Location
Spring Branch
The PH should come down on it's own with the driftwood and some adjustments to the flow of the tank, it just takes time. Mine started out in 8.2 range but after a few weeks it dropped steadily to level off at 6.8. If you have a ton of surface agitation and if possible adjust the output of your filter to reduce it. The less there is the less CO2 is exchanged over time and the PH will be pulled down by the increased CO2 levels. Once the PH is in range adjust the output to increase the surface agitation a little at a time until you find the sweet spot where the plants are responding nicely and the PH stays in check.

Sucks to hear about the ich. The one and only time I got it, I got a bottle of Kordon Rid-Ich and a big jug of API aquarium salt. I pulled my inverts out and put them in a holding tank, removed all carbon from the filter and and slowly raised the water temp to 86F and increased aeration and surface agitation to keep the O2 levels up. I added the treatment and 1tsp of salt per gallon. I let it run for a day like that then I then vac'ed the top layer of the sand bed every other day with a 50% water change in the process. I did end up losing several fish in the process, but they were the Cardinals and of all of them those are some of the most sensitive to water issues. Once the tank was up to medicating temp after 4 days I did not see any signs of Ich but kept at the treatment plan for a full week topping off the water adding the salt and meds then vacc water change... Wash Rinse Repeat... Once it was all done I slowly lowered the temp back down to 78 over a couple days and did two more large changes and added charcoal and purigen to pull the renaming meds out. I let it run for another 24 hours like that and swapped the carbon then added the inverts back in and monitored for another couple days and everything returned back to normal.
 
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Carrie Jo

Guest
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
The PH should come down on it's own with the driftwood and some adjustments to the flow of the tank, it just takes time. Mine started out in 8.2 range but after a few weeks it dropped steadily to level off at 6.8. If you have a ton of surface agitation and if possible adjust the output of your filter to reduce it. The less there is the less CO2 is exchanged over time and the PH will be pulled down by the increased CO2 levels. Once the PH is in range adjust the output to increase the surface agitation a little at a time until you find the sweet spot where the plants are responding nicely and the PH stays in check.

Sucks to hear about the ich. The one and only time I got it, I got a bottle of Kordon Rid-Ich and a big jug of API aquarium salt. I pulled my inverts out and put them in a holding tank, removed all carbon from the filter and and slowly raised the water temp to 86F and increased aeration and surface agitation to keep the O2 levels up. I added the treatment and 1tsp of salt per gallon. I let it run for a day like that then I then vac'ed the top layer of the sand bed every other day with a 50% water change in the process. I did end up losing several fish in the process, but they were the Cardinals and of all of them those are some of the most sensitive to water issues. Once the tank was up to medicating temp after 4 days I did not see any signs of Ich but kept at the treatment plan for a full week topping off the water adding the salt and meds then vacc water change... Wash Rinse Repeat... Once it was all done I slowly lowered the temp back down to 78 over a couple days and did two more large changes and added charcoal and purigen to pull the renaming meds out. I let it run for another 24 hours like that and swapped the carbon then added the inverts back in and monitored for another couple days and everything returned back to normal.
Yea I have always used aquarium salt in the past [only had ich once. Or twice in over 20 years] I think the salt always in the tank helped but read several places it would kill my plants. So this go around there is no salt in my tank. (Saw someone talking about Epson salt with is great for plants but never heard of it for fish?)

I have been doing the water changes with RODI water 25%. I medicated 2 days but yesterday I kept coming across people using garlic so I thought I would try it. I did raise the temp before but something keeps telling my gut it is too much on these fish. So last night I turned off the heater and tried garlic. Trouble with garlic is they have to eat it. Don't think they are. Put one in whole another minced.

Bought marineland but don't know if it is any good or better than what I tried the first 2 times.

I honestly feel like there isn't a gold standard. "Hey do this and this with a planted tank and x y and z fish."

Last thing I want to do is make matters worse.
 
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Carrie Jo

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Jul 20, 2015
Location
NW Houston
Oh and the ph. Yea it doesn't seem to move. Even the one time I did 50 percent RODI water change (no fish just plants at the time).

I have some peat soaking to add to the filter my gut tells me to throw it in it will lower the ph and help the fish but the science side says it might filter medicine like charcoal.

Either way I am not putting anywhere near the amount they say on the box it is pure crazy, like almost .5 of a pound. Starting with .8 of an ounce when I do. Though it doesn't look like that much it is .25 of a cup. Figure when I try it will keep it in there for 6 weeks to see how things react.
 
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