T5s, LEDs, and Spectrum (1 Viewer)

[Cody]

When you compare the pros and cons of t5s to leds, a few aspects come to mind immediately. How much PAR are they putting out? What kind of spectrum? How much coverage? There seems to be some common answers to these types of questions that everyone just "knows" and accepts. For example, which has better coverage? Probably going to be t5s. But I just had a light bulb turn on (figuratively speaking) in my head about spectrum. Why is it just understood that t5s have a fuller spectrum? Myself included has used them as supplementation to leds for quite a while, and that was one of the two main reasons. I'm not sure why it never clicked before, but the spectographs tell a different story. Which looks "fuller" to you?

ATI Coral Plus (This is just for example, as I have always considered this a stand-alone bulb that could grow coral)



Ecotech Radion G4




AI Hydra




As you'll see, there are parts in the middle of the spectrum for the t5 that are completely missing. As far as chlorophyll is concerned, those are useless (just like green), but that still doesn't make t5s a "fuller light source". I dunno. Just a shower thought that I had.

 

[decimal]

You’re the one who keeps saying that LED’s are “cannons” with a limited spread. I agree and logic would dictate that the sprectrum isn’t not the main factor. It’s spread and T5 spread much better resulting in thin claims of T5 superiority... @Reefahholic, we know you’re in a marriage with T5 and coral growth that has no room for unruly LED disrupters . People used to say the same things about MH though. Combo is still the best imho.

 

[i_am_poor]

Here we go..

 

[Bullitt519]

I guess it also depends on what channels you run on the LED is that with all them on max settings? T5 is always going to have same spectrum but with LED that graph could change depending on what channels you run and how hard you push them. At least that is my understanding.

 

[decimal]

 

[PorpoiseHork]

I guess it also depends on what channels you run on the LED is that with all them on max settings? T5 is always going to have same spectrum but with LED that graph could change depending on what channels you run and how hard you push them. At least that is my understanding.

I was going to say the same thing. Running a single T5 bulb designed to output a specific color spectrum cannot produce a fuller spectrum output like a LED fixture will To get that you would need to mix different bulb types to get achieve a similar spectrum output. All of your mid-high end LED fixtures allow you to adjust the output by each channel so you can tailor the output as you wish.

On my Hydras for example, I don't run the green channel at all. I did the same thing with the Photon V2 light I used to run. This was after talking at length with Logan from Reef Breeders on the color spectrum output, he stated that the white LED's have a broad enough color spectrum that they will easily provide enough in the 500-560nm range that the greens are not really needed.

 

[Cody]

You’re the one who keeps saying that LED’s are “cannons” with a limited spread. I agree and logic would dictate that the sprectrum isn’t not the main factor. It’s spread and T5 spread much better resulting in thin claims of T5 superiority... @Reefahholic, we know you’re in a marriage with T5 and coral growth that has no room for unruly LED disrupters . People used to say the same things about MH though. Combo is still the best imho.

Oh I agree that the combo is the best approach. Best of both worlds. And yes, LEDs are much more of cannons than t5s. It just registered to me that a t5 bulb doesn't have as full of a spectrum when compared to modern led fixtures.

 

[Cody]

I guess it also depends on what channels you run on the LED is that with all them on max settings? T5 is always going to have same spectrum but with LED that graph could change depending on what channels you run and how hard you push them. At least that is my understanding.

For sure, and I agree. It was just an observation of mine. I'm fully aware that everyone isnt running all channels 100% all the time.

 

[Reefahholic]

You’re the one who keeps saying that LED’s are “cannons” with a limited spread. I agree and logic would dictate that the sprectrum isn’t not the main factor. It’s spread and T5 spread much better resulting in thin claims of T5 superiority... @Reefahholic, we know you’re in a marriage with T5 and coral growth that has no room for unruly LED disrupters . People used to say the same things about MH though. Combo is still the best imho.

I never said don’t run LED’s. Be my guest!

 

[Reefahholic]

For sure, and I agree. It was just an observation of mine. I'm fully aware that everyone isnt running all channels 100% all the time.

There are maybe 5 tanks with LED’s that are as good as it gets. All 5 are running 100% on all channels.

If I bought a LED fixture it would be Orphek. I’d still supplement with T5’s.

https://orphek.com/led/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Orphek-Atlantik-V4-LED-Aquarium-Lighting-catalog-.pdf

 

[Mpolasek]

although i have absolutely no knowledge on how the lights work and all the info flys by, isn't the point for a light to shine and if it works it works?

 

[Cody]

There are maybe 5 tanks with LED’s that are as good as it gets. All 5 are running 100% on all channels.

If I bought a LED fixture it would be Orphek. I’d still supplement with T5’s.

https://orphek.com/led/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Orphek-Atlantik-V4-LED-Aquarium-Lighting-catalog-.pdf

Oh I know. I would take a hybrid system any day over just leds. However, I just had that shower thought. Those leds are a fuller spectrum than any t5 bulb if they're opened up.

 

[decimal]

If I had to come up with an analogy I would say that T5 are like the blue sky and MH, LED direct sunbeams? The ability to “tune” the spectrum itself is just the first step and should progress into a “fine tune” model. I would not be surprised if at some point we manage to fine tune to such an extent as to be able to intergrate the diffusion ability right into the led control function

 

[Reefahholic]

-*

If I had to come up with an analogy I would say that T5 are like the blue sky and MH, LED direct sunbeams? The ability to “tune” the spectrum itself is just the first step and should progress into a “fine tune” model. I would not be surprised if at some point we manage to fine tune to such an extent as to be able to intergrate the diffusion ability right into the led control function

LED's do seem to be getting better every year. With diffusers they give off better light IMO. Metal Halides work very well and can blanket the corals with light especially when larger reflectors are used. Most people including myself don't want to buy a chiller, deal with the heat, deal with the bulkiness, or invest in something that may or may not be around long-term. Then one side of me knows what MH's are capable of and wants to go buy some. 6000K to 12K looks horrible to my eyes and probably why most people stay away from them. It takes a lot of light in the blue spectrum to overpower that much yellow/white light. I run 2 6500K during my peak photo period and even with a lot of blue it cannot overpower them.

You look at companies like Orphek and they appear to be good, but then I've heard all the horror stories. People asked to fix their own fixtures that quit working. The company isn't local, so if you have issues you are pretty much SOL. They do seem to be trying to work with people more now which is a positive. I may end up going to LED's eventually, but until they get all the kinks out and offer a fixture that's bulletproof I'll be sticking to what I know has been working forever. I'd love to see a company like Ecotech reverse engineer Orphek's Atlantik V4 Gen 2 and provide good customer service when the light fails. When those days come we'll see how things go then.

As of right now...I think MH and T5's can grow a wide range of coral easier and better than all other lighting. The only people who rave and really push LED's are being paid and are sponsored with the lights. Sanjay, Top Shelf, Reef Dudes, Rico's Aquariums, WWC, etc. If you're growing softies that's a whole different story.

Look at all the past TOTM's and people on the Acropora forums and you'll see that most are using MH and T5's.

 

[Reefahholic]

 

[decimal]

Something that I have come across is people raving about extraordinary PE in their SPS with T5 but not so much with LED. How is PE for those who are using LED only?

 

[Bullitt519]

Something that I have come across is people raving about extraordinary PE in their SPS with T5 but not so much with LED. How is PE for those who are using LED only?

I run only LED for about 7 months now. I have T5s I just never turn them on anymore. I would say I have decent polyp extension for the most part. Not all corals seem to react the same though.

 

[Reefahholic]

You’re the one who keeps saying that LED’s are “cannons” with a limited spread. I agree and logic would dictate that the sprectrum isn’t not the main factor. It’s spread and T5 spread much better resulting in thin claims of T5 superiority... @Reefahholic, we know you’re in a marriage with T5 and coral growth that has no room for unruly LED disrupters . People used to say the same things about MH though. Combo is still the best imho.

Put it this way...If Ecotech Sponsored me with 4 brand new Gen 4 Radions my ATI PowerModule would not be coming down. The Radions would be used as secondary fill light.

If Orphek offered 2 Atlantik V4 Gen 2's with excellent customer service....I'd highly consider trying them for 8 months. Just wait 3-5 more years. LED's will finally arrive.

 

[Reefahholic]

Something that I have come across is people raving about extraordinary PE in their SPS with T5 but not so much with LED. How is PE for those who are using LED only?

LED’s only.

 

[Cody]

Put it this way...If Ecotech Sponsored me with 4 brand new Gen 4 Radions my ATI PowerModule would not be coming down. The Radions would be used as secondary fill light.

If Orphek offered 2 Atlantik V4 Gen 2's with excellent customer service....I'd highly consider trying them for 8 months. Just wait 3-5 more years. LED's will finally arrive.

They arrive within 2-3 business days if select the express delivery upon checkout