Co2 regulator experiences (1 Viewer)

[cliner]

So just curious what you are using for your Ca rx, have used and opinions on them. I dont think i can buy the 'Best Available' but want a reliable one. So share your thoughts and experience. I have a Milwaukee now but it is damaged and i cant trust it. Thanks!

 

[steveb]

I bought a used victor 2 stage regulator off of ebay ($25), sent it in to Regulator and Torch Exchange | Regulator and Torch Exchange, Inc. to replace all of the soft parts and convert to to lower pressure springs on 2nd stage (approx. $110) (so < $150 for nice 2 stage regulator).

Seems to work well from functional testing I have done.. (note not currently using it to deliver CO2 as part of a new build)..

I'm basically following this thread off of RC..
How to build a CO2 regulator for your calcium reactor. - Reef Central Online Community

IRC atxacrofarmer bought d2mini's old dual stage regulator (built from same thread above)..

 

[reeftopia]

My experience with the cheap regulators is that they don't last long and after spending what a good one would cost I ended up buying a GOOD ONE.

 

[PSXerholic]

I have a similar issue. I do have fluctuations with my Willwalkmeaway regulator.
The needle valve get clogged after a while and the fine tuning is problematic ;-(
Looking for the Electronic regulator now.

Anyone experience with those ones and if there are varieties of brands?

-Andre

 

[steveb]

The victor that I purchased is by no means a cheap regulator.. It retails new in the $450 range.. It is a very high quality regulator.

 

[FarmerTy]

Here's the one I bought off of D2mini. Flawless performance but if you are looking at mid-range prices, probably a little more than you want to spend.

These are Dennis' pictures.

The carbon doser works well as I had it before upgrading. My knocks on it are the audible clicking sound and being only 1-stage and not 2-stage but it was 100% reliable. If it ever malfunctions, I heard its generally just $80 and the manufacturer will get it back to working order for you.

 

[PSXerholic]

Here's the one I bought off of D2mini. Flawless performance but if you are looking at mid-range prices, probably a little more than you want to spend.

These are Dennis' pictures.

The carbon doser works well as I had it before upgrading. My knocks on it are the audible clicking sound and being only 1-stage and not 2-stage but it was 100% reliable. If it ever malfunctions, I heard its generally just $80 and the manufacturer will get it back to working order for you.

ATX, so you are saying that you can hear the solenoid noise from the "Carbon doser Co2 Electronic regulator" ???

-Andre

 

[FarmerTy]

ATX, so you are saying that you can hear the solenoid noise from the "Carbon doser Co2 Electronic regulator" ???

-Andre

Yes, though in a cabinet, you probably wouldn't pick it out or hear it outside of the cabinet. Think like a clock second hand clicking... Very similar sound.

 

[Paul Buie]

I am using a Carbon Doser regulator as well. Same experience as ATX - it has been very reliable. My only complaint is that I could not dial in the combination of bubble count and bubble size to keep the pH in the reactor where I wanted. It either drifted too high or would drift too low. I eventually started controlling it using my Apex and the ph meter in the reactor. The drift may be because my low effluent rate created difficulties dialing it in.

 

[PSXerholic]

I am using a Carbon Doser regulator as well. Same experience as ATX - it has been very reliable. My only complaint is that I could not dial in the combination of bubble count and bubble size to keep the pH in the reactor where I wanted. It either drifted too high or would drift too low. I eventually started controlling it using my Apex and the ph meter in the reactor. The drift may be because my low effluent rate created difficulties dialing it in.

Paul,
what size tank, reactor and effluent rate we talk here?

Cheers
Andre

 

[flipside]

My next step is to do like Steve did above, or like Dennis did. I've tried the Carbondoser, and it was fine. It just left a lot to be desired, though reliable. I always worry about when the bottle gets low, and dumps. I've never had that happen, but peace of mind helps me sleep better at night. I also like dual stage (not gauge... that's a gimme) regulators. I just purchased a "CO2 Art" pro dual stage regulator from the UK. I'm going to try it out, but the reviews are perfect. I don't need something that will cost me 500+ to build, or 700+ to buy complete for this thing. I just need something good enough for what we do, so I started researching what the "planted tank" boys are doing. They highly recommend GLA regulators (new series of them are coming out this summer) and the CO2 Art line up. My entire order was under 200 bones shipped express, with tracking. That was the reg, bubble counter, check valve, and some tubing. For the price, you can't beat it; but quality is still a concern until it's in my hands, then operating on my system.

There's a lot of these out there, nowadays. Regulators shouldn't be this difficult. I have had too many lock up on me and corrode to go back to what the big box stores are selling as "reef grade" regulators. Another one that's really starting to grow on me... aesthetics!!!! I want something this pricey to look GOOD! Carbondosers look like something out of the 80s. I hate to say that because I love their product quite a bit, too!

I studied-up on the planted tank guys because they dose CO2 "way" more than we do, through diffusers that look pretty dope when operating. The guys in the UK and AUS also use "soda stream" bottles to attached the regulators which has an easier footprint than these 5 and 10 gallon tree trunks we use under our stands. Let's face it... the guys across the pond are into sleek, modern designs more than we are here, in the US. LOL! I'm digressing... Sorry, but yeah... check out the CO2 Art ones, or wait for me to get mine. I'll post up how I feel about it in my build thread, or via YouTube video when all is said and done.

I hope this one ain't a dud.

 

[Paul Buie]

Paul,
what size tank, reactor and effluent rate we talk here?

Cheers
Andre

Thanks Andre - It's probably only dosing about a drop a second or a little faster. It's either the Geo 618 or 624 model, with the small panworld recirc pump. I have some large LPS and a decent sized clam. Total tank volume is about 165 gals. I measured it at one point and I think the effluent rate when I started was around 30-40 ml per minute. It's not a steady stream. If my alk/ca tests are low, I up the effluent rate ever so slightly. I have a small gate valve that has very fine tuning, so I can really dial in the effluent rate. It does a good job keeping up with consumption. I use Reef Crystals with high alk/ca, but two week water changes became not enough to keep up with consumption.

My problem was that if I cut the bubble rate back to 1 bubble every 8-10 secs, with low regulator pressure, sometimes it wouldn't bubble. Anytime I increased bubble count or regulator pressure, the ph was driven down too much and I would accumulate too much gas in the reactor. I have a scrubber rx downstream full of media, so my tank pH stays stable, but I didn't know what a really low pH would do to my media.

I think the root problem is that due to very limited space in my fish room, the reactors are about 4' above my sump on a shelf, and excess CO2 does not really have a decent way to escape (if it builds up). I really need these reactors on the floor, but no room.... If I could vent the excess CO2 I could probably tune it in properly.....

Right now the apex has the CO2 coming on at a pH of 6.7, and goes off at 6.5. It runs smoothly like that. It is able to flush out enough CO2 when it turns off. I probably should have given the regulator a bit more credit in my previous post. It's probably not the regulator giving me problems, I think it is because my reactors need to be on the floor and they can't easily vent excess CO2.

I'm open to any ideas to get it off the Apex, but I just couldn't get the thing tuned correctly with the way it is configured. It is my first one, so any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks!

P

Thought you might want these parameters - Alk 10.5, Ca 450, Mag 1400, Nitrate 5, PO4, 0.009 (Hanna ULR). Except for Mag, it maintains these levels pretty well. I dose Mag by hand when it falls below 1250.

 

[cliner]

Thanks for the input folks, its helping more than me i hope.

 

[PSXerholic]

My next step is to do like Steve did above, or like Dennis did. I've tried the Carbondoser, and it was fine. It just left a lot to be desired, though reliable. I always worry about when the bottle gets low, and dumps. I've never had that happen, but peace of mind helps me sleep better at night. I also like dual stage (not gauge... that's a gimme) regulators. I just purchased a "CO2 Art" pro dual stage regulator from the UK. I'm going to try it out, but the reviews are perfect. I don't need something that will cost me 500+ to build, or 700+ to buy complete for this thing. I just need something good enough for what we do, so I started researching what the "planted tank" boys are doing. They highly recommend GLA regulators (new series of them are coming out this summer) and the CO2 Art line up. My entire order was under 200 bones shipped express, with tracking. That was the reg, bubble counter, check valve, and some tubing. For the price, you can't beat it; but quality is still a concern until it's in my hands, then operating on my system.

There's a lot of these out there, nowadays. Regulators shouldn't be this difficult. I have had too many lock up on me and corrode to go back to what the big box stores are selling as "reef grade" regulators. Another one that's really starting to grow on me... aesthetics!!!! I want something this pricey to look GOOD! Carbondosers look like something out of the 80s. I hate to say that because I love their product quite a bit, too!

I studied-up on the planted tank guys because they dose CO2 "way" more than we do, through diffusers that look pretty dope when operating. The guys in the UK and AUS also use "soda stream" bottles to attached the regulators which has an easier footprint than these 5 and 10 gallon tree trunks we use under our stands. Let's face it... the guys across the pond are into sleek, modern designs more than we are here, in the US. LOL! I'm digressing... Sorry, but yeah... check out the CO2 Art ones, or wait for me to get mine. I'll post up how I feel about it in my build thread, or via YouTube video when all is said and done.

I hope this one ain't a dud.

THX for sharing the thoughts, well taken.

-Andre

 

[PSXerholic]

Thanks Andre - It's probably only dosing about a drop a second or a little faster. It's either the Geo 618 or 624 model, with the small panworld recirc pump. I have some large LPS and a decent sized clam. Total tank volume is about 165 gals. I measured it at one point and I think the effluent rate when I started was around 30-40 ml per minute. It's not a steady stream. If my alk/ca tests are low, I up the effluent rate ever so slightly. I have a small gate valve that has very fine tuning, so I can really dial in the effluent rate. It does a good job keeping up with )consumption. I use Reef Crystals with high alk/ca, but two week water changes became not enough to keep up with consumption.

My problem was that if I cut the bubble rate back to 1 bubble every 8-10 secs, with low regulator pressure, sometimes it wouldn't bubble. Anytime I increased bubble count or regulator pressure, the ph was driven down too much and I would accumulate too much gas in the reactor. I have a scrubber rx downstream full of media, so my tank pH stays stable, but I didn't know what a really low pH would do to my media.

I think the root problem is that due to very limited space in my fish room, the reactors are about 4' above my sump on a shelf, and excess CO2 does not really have a decent way to escape (if it builds up). I really need these reactors on the floor, but no room.... If I could vent the excess CO2 I could probably tune it in properly.....

Right now the apex has the CO2 coming on at a pH of 6.7, and goes off at 6.5. It runs smoothly like that. It is able to flush out enough CO2 when it turns off. I probably should have given the regulator a bit more credit in my previous post. It's probably not the regulator giving me problems, I think it is because my reactors need to be on the floor and they can't easily vent excess CO2.

I'm open to any ideas to get it off the Apex, but I just couldn't get the thing tuned correctly with the way it is configured. It is my first one, so any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks!

P

Thought you might want these parameters - Alk 10.5, Ca 450, Mag 1400, Nitrate 5, PO4, 0.009 (Hanna ULR). Except for Mag, it maintains these levels pretty well. I dose Mag by hand when it falls below 1250.

I may not resolve your issue but may bring some clarity or makes it better.
Ok, here is the thing.

APEX only should do the trip on the solenoid. Means set it from low 6.6 to high 6.8
Your CARX operating PH of 6.7 (minor fluctuations in the day are ok), you stabilize with the regulator only.

Keep it like that, only adjust more or less co2 in case you change the effluent. Then less or more co2 may be required.
Generally I keep 7 to 8 kg/cm2 on the low pressure side (working pressure) and adjust minor corrections not with the needle, I do it with the working pressure valve ;-)
That makes the regulator working 24 hours and the solenoid ideally does not do anything (Credit to ATX for this) So much less risk of Solenoid valve/APEX failures.

Now you hopefully have the effluent needle valve on the end of the lines, after the second chamber where it return back into the sump return section ideally.
Have a 2-3 inch long line leading out of the valve prior the effluent to exit into wherever.
Ideally have the effluent going into the dirty sock area with all the bubbles. That helps further to keep tank PH up.

So managing the PH in the reactor on 6.7 will for example require 30ml of effluent to keep ALK at 8.
Really measure ml per minute with a Coral frag pee cup or whatever and a full minute.
If ALK drops then in future, just increase the flow or driprate of the effluent.
This increase of effluent may require the operating PH to be adjusted since it likely will raise a bit due to more flow of effluent.
Then just simple turn a bit the working valve higher, the one you set the working pressure at with. Voila, no needle valve adjustment !!!

BTW, you can buy the crappy API teskits für cheap and measure the ALK level in the effluent to measure the effective ALK level and therefore the performance of the reactor ;-)
That's good to know when you got behind the working principle and complexity of the reactor method.

Hope it helps in my German english ;-)

-Andre

 

[cliner]

Some very good operating principles i can relate to. Thanks for sharing.

 

[PSXerholic]

Some very good operating principles i can relate to. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome.
That is helpful info for many others as well.

-Andre

 

[cliner]

So, for now (haven't we all made that statement) im going to run the RX through the Reefkeeper for low ph solenoid shut off. I can get things to operate very stable, but the peace of mind of not over alkilinity to the system is there. Can plan regulator build and procurement of parts.