Fish are dying : ( (1 Viewer)

[trb]

Well, it started a couple of days ago, our newest fish, a royal gramma died on Thursday. All we found was the tail when I got home to get it out of the tank. We got it on Sat.

Then Fri morning I could not find the clown fish. My daughter found "Nemo" (or what was left of him) Fri afternoon between some rocks, along with a dead yellow tail damsel. I fished them out, checked the water, ph 8.2ish, ammonia was about 0.25, nitrite 0, and nitrate was between 5 and 10. Did a 10 gal water change on the 40 gal tank. Then another yt damsel died late last night and the last yt one died just now.

I tested again, and ammonia is 0, nitrite 0, nitrate around 5 and the ph looks lower, around 7.9, but I will retest.

The lawnmower looks OK, he's a little less active, and the eel is staying inside a rock, only occasionally sticking his head out, very unlike him.
The 3 bar damsels are staying hidden, not wanting to come out, and the clarkii clown is just running around looking disturbed like he is gasping for air or something. Snails & hermits look OK, although I found one hermit out of his shell partially eaten. Anenomes look OK. Oh, the eel just came out and is looking around.

Couple of things. I fed them a small bit, like 1/3 of a small cooked cocktail shrimp on Tuesday. I didn't think anything of it, but my wife thought it might have some preservatives or chemicals in it. My 8 yr old son, whose tank it is, was working on the tank on Wed, cleaning the algae and moving a few pieces of mushroom rock that were covered by sand. I stress to them about washing and rinsing their hands very well, and I asked him if he did, but who knows, his hands were already in the water.

Looking at the damsels, they do have a bunch of white spots. I thought about ich, but would that kill them that quickly? I couldn't see anything on the other fish, either they were stripped down or bleached out with no color (the yt damsels).

Any ideas? I'll do another water change today of 10-15 gallons, or more if you think necessary.

Hopefully what is left survives, but if not I guess I should start out with all new water and let it run for a few weeks before trying anything else. This is a bummer, and it makes my wife "not so happy" about this hobby. You know we have to keep momma happy!

Thanks.

Thomas

 

[trb]

 

[FISHSTICK]

How long has the tank been up and running? Maybe the eel is causing the fish to stress, just a guess.

 

[NanoCubeKid]

one thing about kids and washing up before tank fiddling.

they use soap, they dont rinse. they only wash their hands.

I have my kids only run fresh warm water over any part they think will get in that tank for about 20 seconds or so. that give me at least a chance that anything on their hands or arms have a chance of getting off.

I doubt your little cocktail shrimp killed those fish.

I was kind of thinking eel too.

 

[trb]

It has been running for about 5-6 weeks. We've had the eel for about 3 weeks. All my readings have been zero and PH about 8.2-8.3 since the beginning until yesterday. I thought too about the eel getting the first two (gramma & clown) since he chases the clown during feeding sometimes. But with the 3 damsels dying in one day, I don't know. They died slowly, no bite trauma, and they just looked like heck in the hours before they expired.

I'm going to change the water some more and just see how things go. Everything did look better before I left the house at 10 this morning. Eel and clarkii ate some, but the striped damsels stayed hidden.

I'll just have to see. I might just put the eel in the 30 gal sump for now and make it more of a second tank than a true sump. Hopefully they will all still be alive when I get home tonight.

Thanks

 

[FISHSTICK]

It has to be something serious, b/c your damsels died and those fish are hard to kill. You sure your tank is fully cycled? What size tank is it?

 

[majikmike9999]

Wow that sucks, sorry to hear you are having so many problems. i wonder if the bio load was just too much i know i added too much to my tank when i first set it up and lost a couple of things?
Hope it works out

 

[Ophiura]

Hi,

Can you post a full run down of the tank, age, filtration, etc?

What maintenance do you do?

This is a young tank with a fair number of fish to go into it, and that concerns me. Patience is key with stocking, but hard, especially when you have young folks involved.

I think there are something like 7 fish from counting the deaths unfortunately?

The shrimp did not do this. Fish at aquariums must be fed food suitable for human consumption. fish food also has all manner of preservatives.

IMO, you have a serious issue, and it needs to be resolved on a strict timeline. It is important to know when fish died, especially relative to hands in the tank. It is important to know if anyone may be adding additional food or anything. But soap is a concern. If you have an algae sponge...it is not a kitchen sponge, right? This is a common and fatal mistake.

 

[trb]

It has to be something serious, b/c your damsels died and those fish are hard to kill. You sure your tank is fully cycled? What size tank is it?

It is a 40 gal. I started with about 65 lbs of live rock from a couple of guys on here. I never really saw a cycle, all the parameters remained at zero every time the water was tested, both by the LFS and an API marine test kit I got 3 weeks ago. Like I said, everything was normal last weekend. I doubt if it was too much load, we had about 14" of fish plus the 6" eel (size of a pencil). But I've been working on a 60 gal DT with a 30 gal sump to transfer the survivors into, hopefully in a few weeks.

 

[trb]

Hi,

Can you post a full run down of the tank, age, filtration, etc?

40 gal tank was bought used 6 weeks ago, set up 5 weeks ago with 65lbs of LR and dry sand (one bag & bucket of used)

Currently running a HOB filter, mostly just to catch anything big, no filter media, just the bio screens.

What maintenance do you do?

Top off water, changed probably 10 gal of water over the past 2-3 weeks, check water parameters weekly myself and at LFS.

This is a young tank with a fair number of fish to go into it, and that concerns me. Patience is key with stocking, but hard, especially when you have young folks involved.

I think there are something like 7 fish from counting the deaths unfortunately?

Nine plus the eel. I know it is too much, but plans are for a 60 gal & 30 gal sump soon.

The shrimp did not do this. Fish at aquariums must be fed food suitable for human consumption. fish food also has all manner of preservatives.

IMO, you have a serious issue, and it needs to be resolved on a strict timeline. It is important to know when fish died, especially relative to hands in the tank. It is important to know if anyone may be adding additional food or anything. But soap is a concern. If you have an algae sponge...it is not a kitchen sponge, right? This is a common and fatal mistake.

The hands was on Tues or Wednesday, I don't recall exactly. No one else feeds them but me, 1 cube of mysis shrimp and a few small pinches of granular marine fish food a day. I tried some flakes, but they were not interested. My wife says I don't feed them enough, but I don't want to overfeed. We have a new Magfloat and that is all we use for cleaning the interior.

Thanks

 

[Ophiura]

Have you tested for any stray voltage?

What circulation do you have in the tank? Just the HOB or additional powerheads?

 

[trb]

No I haven't tested it, but I haven't gotten shocked! I have one Korelia that I run sometimes, and two MJ1200s. I did just get one of the MJ1200s used last Sunday, but it was fairly new. I'll pull it out ASAP.

Thanks!

 

[trb]

Well, I just finished up a 15 gal water change and removed the "new" MJ1200. All the survivors are acting more like normal. The lone damsel is swimming around instead of cowering under a rock, so is the clarkii and the eel is out roaming around. So hopefully one of these things took care of it.

I'll dispose of the MJ1200 just in case it was at fault. It was only about $15, but it may have cost me about $40 of fish.

I'll give the tank a good week to recover, and then let my son think about more fish. Hopefully this takes care of it.

Thanks!

 

[wmatt140]

shrimp

I've heard of feeding raw shrimp but not cooked. How was the shrimp cooked?

Is "nemo" an ocellaris? I would think a Clarki and an ocellaris in 40 gallon would be a problem. The Clarki killing the nemo wouldn't be a surprise.

The YT Damsels I have no clue.

The Royal Gramma could be acclimation. It could also be stress from the damsels. Damsels are mean little fish and a 40 gallon doens't offer much room for 4 or 5 to claim territory. They could have tag teamed him until he stressed and died.

IMHO, I think your mix of fishes could be a contributing factor.

 

[wmatt140]

The YT Damsels I have no clue.

Actually the 3 stripes could of bullied these as well.

 

[Guest]

Regarding your first post an ammonia reading of 0.25 ppm is too high. This reefkeeping article ( http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php ) actually recommends removing inhabitants from the tank at the 0.25 ppm mark.

 

[Tempset]

In your first posting you described some pretty unreal circumstances causing your fish death. Shortly after people began questioning your water chemistry. I disagree.

Welcome to the Mantis Shrimp.

Taken from: http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/msubpestmshrimp/a/aa110498.htm

They are most often referred to as Stomatopods.
They come in what seems like an endless variety of species.
They are found in tropical waters worldwide.
They are carnivores and will eat just about anything and everything.
They are experts at catching and killing prey, being very clever, stealthy hunters.
They are masters at hiding.
They are not related to shrimp, but are referred to as shrimp because of their front appendages and how they use them to capture food.
They are called a "Mantis" Shrimp due to the fact they resemble the appearance and have the same hunting characteristics of a praying mantis insect.
There are two hunting categories, the "spearers" and the "smashers". The "spearers" use their spear-like claw to silently stab soft tissued prey. The "smashers" use their forceful, club-like claw to hit, crack open or pulverize harder bodied prey. It is interesting that the power of the "smashers" appendage can produce a blow close to the power of a .22 caliber bullet and are notoriously known as "thumb splitters". It is rumored that because of the tremendous strength these animals have, they can crack aquarium glass. From a story about how a pet Mantis Shrimp broke 1/4 inch aquarium glass, that was posted in The Daily Mirror (a British Newspaper) on Friday, April 10, 1998, page 11, this documentation leads us to believe that this is possible.
These animals are burrowers, and can create tubes or cavities in sand, rubble or mud.
They will adapt to living in holes, cracks or crevices in rocks, and may take up residence in snail or hermit crab shells as well.
They are solitary animals, and unless you have a VERY large tank, they should be kept alone.
The Mantis Shrimp is no wimp, Some species can reach up to a length of about 12 inches. We find a very large six to eight inch, black and white striped species here in Moloka'i waters on the mud flats that are not to be taken lightly. We also have a two to three inch green species that may be small, but still very powerful.
So how does a Mantis Shrimp get into your tank, aside from intentionally putting one there? By hitchhiking in on live rock.

 

[trb]

Re: shrimp

I've heard of feeding raw shrimp but not cooked. How was the shrimp cooked?

it was just the precooked cocktail shrimp you buy frozen in the store and thaw. So I assume it was boiled.

Is "nemo" an ocellaris? I would think a Clarki and an ocellaris in 40 gallon would be a problem. The Clarki killing the nemo wouldn't be a surprise.

Actually, they got along very well. They were always side by side and I never saw any hostility.

The YT Damsels I have no clue.

The Royal Gramma could be acclimation. It could also be stress from the damsels. Damsels are mean little fish and a 40 gallon doens't offer much room for 4 or 5 to claim territory. They could have tag teamed him until he stressed and died.

IMHO, I think your mix of fishes could be a contributing factor.

I didn't really want to get the gramma, but my daughter did, so I gave in. But apparently the fish I had all tolerated each other pretty well. Every time we were looking at them, they are in our study so someone is in there most of the day on the PCs, I never really saw any aggression between them. The only things I saw was the eel chasing a couple of the fish during feeding and maybe the damsels chasing each other occasionally. So unless they were doing it only when we were not looking, they seemed to get along.

I took the water to a LFS (Aquarium World) and discussed everything with them. The lady there, after I described the symptoms on the last fish that I was able to see die before it got eaten or bleached out, and she really thinks it was ich. Although I only saw spots on one of the striped damsels, the whitish, fuzzy looking stuff on the side of the clown she said was a secondary infection they get after ich. Plus it only hit the fish, my inverts are all OK.

Anyway, we have the eel and the lawnmower left, she said they should be OK. So we are taking a couple of weeks off from fish while I finish up the 60 gal with 30 gal sump. The boss will give us one more shot at a tank so hopefully we will have better luck.

Thanks for the info.

 

[wmatt140]

next move

Regardless of what happened, we may never know, I think the mix of fish was not going to work long term. Before you start your new tank, I would recommend researching fish and picking a mix of peaceful inhabitants. The less stress involved the better chance fish have of living a healthy life.

I would not put any damsels in a 60 gallon except for maybe a single yellow tail. I had to tear apart a 55 gallon many years ago to catch a blue damsel that turned hyper aggressive.

Granted it has been awhile, but I'm not a fan of Aquarium World. Last time I was there the prices were way high and fish did not look healthy. Do a search on this site for Aquarium World. It is not just my opinion. City Pets, Fishland and TnT are in that part of town and I think a much better option.

Good luck,

 

[trb]

I do agree on their prices, everything is quite a bit more expensive compared to other places, except for the salt water @ $.99 a gallon. Fresh water is a bit much @ .49, but they are convenient on my way home from work. I've only bought a few FW fish, snails & hermits and water from them. The feeling about them is mutual, I made the mistake of mentioned MARSH to him and got an earful! LOL!

The next closest place is B&B on FM1960, although I plan to hit Citypets in a couple of weeks. We got the gramma from Fishland.

Thanks.

And thanks for fixing my quote, whoever did it!