HID lighting for coral and reef......MANY ? need answers (1 Viewer)

[Guest]

HID lighting for coral and reef......(tryin to learn the marine world, noob)

-i know most of you use MH (as an HID) for ur lighting for coral/reefs.
----whats the minimal operating color temperature for teh coral/reef? 4.2K, 6.5K, 10k, 20k, 50k?
----what if its too much or too less of a lighting, would the coral/reef die?


-ive only heard of fish ppl use MH as HID lighting. how about MVapor as HID lighting?

-i know MV take couple min more to warm up but has a short time of restriking (restart if turn off), whats teh ups and downs of it? does MV have a dull color(yellow)? availability?


BTW, my avatar is screwed up. whats teh deal?

 

[FireEater]

You have to redo your Avi since they changed something on the board a couple of weeks ago.

Mark

 

[Guest]

What is HID?

What Kevin are the MVapors at?

 

[dfimble]

MVapors - Mercury Vapors (sp??)

They are a type of lighting similar to MH. The problem that I have heard with them is that they put off the wrong spectrum.

For coral spectrum, most people like 10K - 20K and claim that this is what works best for them. Corals in general will change intensity, growth paterns, color when put under different light. My hammer is almost pink in one spot, bright blue/green in another, white, and then almost brown. All in my opinion dealing with light. (somewhat dealing with flow)

Too little light will kill some corals. Too much light will burn a coral if it is not adjusted to the light.

My corals and I prefer to have more light rather than less. 2 - 400W MH (10K) with 3 Actinic and 1 50/50 VHO.

Hope this helps,
David

 

[Guest]

What is HID?

What Kevin are the MVapors at?

HID lights is High Intensive Discharge lightings. metal halide, mercury vapr, sodium(vapor).

just kinda search around on the net and theres not a lot of availability of MV. the mercury vapor color temp i have seen are the home type that most lightin store sell are the 6.5k Kelvin. so, i guess that mercury vapor arent suitable for coral/reefs.

Metal Halide:

which type of socket (DE or SE) do y'all guys prefer?
i like that compact look of DE bulbs, the SE (mogul socket) seems so bulky.

 

[AggieBrandon]

The reason DE bulbs are smaller is because they don't have the glass that blocks the UV surrounding them. If you run DE bulbs you need a glass shield to keep the UV from entering your tank so you usually have to go with a pendant or some sort of fixture. I like the SE bulbs because I can retrofit them into my canopy easier and don't have extra glass to clean salt spray off of.

Brandon

 

[Guest]

The reason DE bulbs are smaller is because they don't have the glass that blocks the UV surrounding them. If you run DE bulbs you need a glass shield to keep the UV from entering your tank so you usually have to go with a pendant or some sort of fixture. I like the SE bulbs because I can retrofit them into my canopy easier and don't have extra glass to clean salt spray off of.

Brandon

how could you tell the different b/t the two types?

for the SE bulbs, whats the glass that filter UV lights from discharging?
i see on both DE and SE bulbs, they both have double insulated glass. ive read couple of tutorial about MH and the experts never mention about it.


am still puzzle about the color temperature. does the coral really need a white(10k) or blue light(20k) to survive?

how about the power a bulb output?
say 2 bulbs: 175w 20k vs, 250w 6.5k. which one works better?

dont the coral need the intensity of the discharge instead of the color?

or am i goin to a wrong direction?

 

[AggieBrandon]

DE = double ended bulb clips into a bracket
SE = single ended bulb screws into mogul socket

In se bulbs the outer layer of glass filters out the UV...de bulbs don't have the extra layer of glass.

Color temperature is basically what you find appealing to your eyes. Iwasaki's are about 6500K and are most natural compared to sunlight. They are said to get the best growth out of corals but not the best color. 20K radiums are used to get the best flourescence from corals but is really blue to the eye. 10K - 14K are in between bulbs that still give a nice crisp white color. I personally use the Iwasaki 6500K MH with VHO actinic supplementation. The intensity of the bulbs is what the corals need...i think the spectrum of the light determines how deep the light will penetrate. When it is time to replace my halides I think I am going to try 10K-14K bulbs.

Brandon

 

[Guest]

DE = double ended bulb clips into a bracket
SE = single ended bulb screws into mogul socket

In se bulbs the outer layer of glass filters out the UV...de bulbs don't have the extra layer of glass.

Color temperature is basically what you find appealing to your eyes. The intensity of the bulbs is what the corals need...i think the spectrum of the light determines how deep the light will penetrate. When it is time to replace my halides I think I am going to try 10K-14K bulbs.

Brandon

this is what i understand about HID and how it work. there are two layers of glass, the inner glass for all HID hold the solid(well, not mercury) metallic state which burns when you ignite it. then from the metallic state it start from, it goes to vapor state when its fully lit then back to solid when its off. so the inner glass is the "thingy" that hold the solids and then theres the outer shell which is the seoncd layer of glass in which DE and SE possesses.

so thats what i understand, thats why i said that DE and SE are exactly alike in technology. so how is it the DE give off UV ray and SE doesnt?

-----------------------------------------------
okay that made it clear about color temperature. so i can just buy a 6.5k bulb(cause its white color already) and supplement it a flourescent 20k VHO.

i think what you meant so say that the penetration through the water area is the power it output in Wattages, the higher the more penetration. thus, teh more intensity it output.


-------------------------------------------------
why i ask all these questions?

cause 6.5k color temperature are carried in a lot of places which is cheaper to spend on cause the HID system can really varies ur electric bills. so want to stick w/ something minimal to my wallet and supplement it w/ VHO fluorescents at 20k.

 

[cparka23]

-----------------------------------------------
okay that made it clear about color temperature. so i can just buy a 6.5k bulb(cause its white color already) and supplement it a flourescent 20k VHO.

i think what you meant so say that the penetration through the water area is the power it output in Wattages, the higher the more penetration. thus, teh more intensity it output.

ok.. here's my take on this. the 6500K temp is good for simulating sunlight, but it looks yellow. the intensity of MH is enough that its penetration into almost any tank is a nonissue. However, yellow light is filtered through the water and has less penetrance than lights of shorter wavelength (i.e. blue actinic lighting). But, these are really nonissues since MH is intense enough to ensure the light reaching the bottom of any tank. The reason VHOs are supplemented is to add more blue light to corals (which they need to show fluorescence) and to wash out the yellow (to make it appear white).

oh yeah, corals that are found in deeper waters usually get filtered light that is more blue than light at the water's surface. Some can get scorched by MH, but I don't think these corals are too common in the hobby (though I haven't exactly been in it for very long), they are adaptable, or they will rely on where you place them in the tank. Hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

am confuse, oner person said that the color is only to appear to ur eyes.

i thought all lights as i remember in college physics output a full spectrum.

whats goin on, one person say one thing another person say another......?????

 

[Guest]

Welcome to reef-keeping lol

 

[AggieBrandon]

No different color light travels at different wavelengths. The blue light (actinic) travels at a different wavelength than the yellow light. The blue light is able to penetrate the water deeper than yellow light. If you are using metal halide you really don't have to worry about the light penetrating to the bottom of the tank unless you are using a tank deeper than around 30 inches.

Brandon

 

[Guest]

[quote="cparka23]ok.. here's my take on this. the 6500K temp is good for simulating sunlight, but it looks yellow. the intensity of MH is enough that its penetration into almost any tank is a nonissue. However, yellow light is filtered through the water and has less penetrance than

sorry for my noobist ...
thats what i read, and youre makin a statement about yellow (6.5k) vs lets say 20k(blue). but i thot the appearance color only what you see but it still project a full light spectrum...????

 

[Guest]

just stumble on this tryin to find a cheap mogul base bulb for a friend.

read teh overview

 

[Cakepro]

CRAP ~ 250 watt 10K bulbs for $35 with free shipping?????????? And the 400 watt bulbs are $40.

I'd like to know what brand the bulbs are!

 

[cparka23]

sorry for my noobist ...
thats what i read, and youre makin a statement about yellow (6.5k) vs lets say 20k(blue). but i thot the appearance color only what you see but it still project a full light spectrum...????

No.. you certainly do not get a full spectrum. Ok. the 6500K and 20000K numbers indicate the color of the light. This is in comparison to gas heated to 6500 degrees Kelvin and 20000 degrees Kelvin.

Here's a quickie lesson on light. White light is made up of all the various wavelengths in the visible spectrum. When you have a yellow bulb (longer wavelengths) and supplement it with a blue bulb (shorter wavelengths), the appearance to the eye is an almost-white light because you mixed a lot of different wavelenghts.

When you buy a bulb, sometimes you can see a graph of the wavelengths emitted. If you have a blue bulb, you get mostly shorter wavelength light (~ 470 nanometers, for example). Since there are other elements inside the bulb (oxygen and nitrogen, for example), no bulb emits a pure single wavelength. Not LEDs, not MH, no bulb does it. You will always get a combination of wavelengths, but some wavelengths will be much stronger than others. It depends on what is the main substance burning inside the bulb and the purity of that substance. Some bulbs emit a wide range of wavelengths. Sun bulbs are an example of this, but even these will have a description of their color in degrees Kelvin. You can go buy a white bulb (10000K) and leave the tank at that, but your corals require specific wavelengths of light to efficiently photosynthesize and produce simple sugars. For this reason, it is better to have a mixture of low wavelength and high wavelength light as opposed to simply having a ragtag mixture of white light in a single bulb.

 

[Guest]

Two comments-
1. Beware of the Cheap bulbs that don't list the manufacturer. A while back there where some cheap MH bulbs from a company called CTI, I believe. They were listed to have a 65 PAR value which is really week.

2. I think it would be ill advised to ever use MV bulds in your house. Should it ever break-Murcury is very poisonous.

 

[Guest]

so what they stated on the product overview is a lie and false advertised?

 

[Guest]

Here a link fron RC about these same bulbs
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=415917&highlight=CRI

I don't think they are trying to fool anyone-it's just an inferior bulb compared to the quality name brands out there. Looks like they are made by Plus lighting, and are mainly used for parking lots and such. I personally think it would be better to use a bulb designed for reef keeping.
All the other threads I've read on RC say that the bulds are actually very yellow.

Can a CRI of 65% be given a 10K rating. The seller states in her add that this bulb has a crisp white light. Currently it looks as if a horse peed in my tank