Nano Questions (1 Viewer)

[eugenius]

So I decided to get back into the hobby in full force. I have always had large fresh water tanks but this time I decided to try my hand at salt. I am some what new to salt, I do have some experience with small fish only nanos but not a ton. I decided to setup a nano for my girlfriend. She really wanted a Fluval rimless tank so we got a 6 gallon. Its been a little bumpy so far. Started with 3 snails, 3 hermits, 1 emerald crab, 1 peppermint shrimp, 1 clown, 1 fire fish, and an anemone. The first 2 weeks it went ok minus the shrimp dying on day 2 or so and the anemone, he kinda shriveled up and wasnt looking hot. Added a sea horse right after that cause she had to have one. Tested the water. Nitrites and Nitrates where a little high so I did a few water changes. Didnt help too much. I had some amoquel from my old fresh water setup. It was very old but said it treated ammonia, nitrites and nitrates so I added a little, about 3/4s of the recommended dose. Well the clown and the fire fish were both dead in 48 hours. Did a few more water changes throughout the week, took a 5 day vacation, and came home, my sea horse and my anemone are looking great. Havent tested the water since I got home yesterday but everything seems great. Thats the back story.

Side notes: I bought the water from the fish store I bought the fish at. I have added 3 more snails but I lost 2 or 3 of them so far. This is the 4th week the tank has been running. I have a 29 gallon setup that is running with good water and for the last few weeks I have been taking the water from there for the water changes.

Questions
What would be some good tank mates for my setup?

Is there any super easy to keep corals or anything like that I could add (right now I am using the stock lighting which is 2 10w bulbs but I saw a few how toos for upgrading it)

Did the amoquell kill my fish? and what should I have done?

What cleaners would be good for this tank? Right now I have 3 hermits or so and 3 or 4 snails plus the emerald, is it over stocked or understocked for cleaners? Also same question for my 29 gallon. it has 6 of the bigger snails, turbos I think, they are all perfectly healthy and fine (thanks been up for 3 weeks now, I made my own water so it is still basically cycling. It only has the snails and 2 damsels in it.)

I know it was a long post but any tips and suggestions help. I bought a 125 that will be salt as well thats going up sometime in the next week or so, any tips on cycling it?

Thanks in advance

 

[TiAg]

I'll let the nano guys answer the nano questions but in short the smaller the tank the harder to manage.

You'll have much better luck with the 125 most likely, more water = more stable. I don't know your experience level with saltwater but it sounds like you're new to it. Do a lot of research and make sure you cycle the tank and rock before you add anything.

So what kind of setup are you doing on the 125? What kind of lights (corals take specific ones)? What kind of salt/sand/rock are you using?

 

[ReefMaster32787]

I suggest you put everything on hold for right now and really do some research about this hobby. I think you are really rushing this and that leads to cataclysmic failure, seahorse's require basically their own system if I am not mistaking. I don't have any of my own.

 

[Houston_Reefer]

Questions
What would be some good tank mates for my setup? There are many. Check out liveaquaria.com and look for fish for a small tank. They have a section for nano fish. Find one or maybe two that you like then go to a LFS and check them out in person. If you like them, get them. You probably don't want more than 1 or 2 in that 6g and it will require detailed water management.

Is there any super easy to keep corals or anything like that I could add (right now I am using the stock lighting which is 2 10w bulbs but I saw a few how toos for upgrading it) There are some low-light corals you could probably keep like xenia or mushrooms. Upgrading will drastically improve the window of corals you can keep.

Did the amoquell kill my fish? and what should I have done? I am not personally familiar with that product so I can't say it killed them for sure but the best bet would have been a series of small water changes to eliminate the nitrates and nitrites. Nitrites present indicate an under-formed biological filter. Best bet is going to be to leave it as is for a while until you see no nitrites and very little nitrates. You will have more success with livestock this way. If I am correct on those Fluval nano's, they use a sponge filter in the corner. That will be sufficient once the bacteria get a foothold.

What cleaners would be good for this tank? Right now I have 3 hermits or so and 3 or 4 snails plus the emerald, is it over stocked or understocked for cleaners? Also same question for my 29 gallon. it has 6 of the bigger snails, turbos I think, they are all perfectly healthy and fine (thanks been up for 3 weeks now, I made my own water so it is still basically cycling. It only has the snails and 2 damsels in it.) The 29 is probably doing better due to the larger water volume. You are most likely correct that it is still cycling so just let it do it's thing for a while then have fun. For the smaller tank I would (after cycling from above ^^) I would get a small, but varied crew. The hermits are good, you may want to get a nassarius, small turbo, and a conch (just a preference of mine). You want things that eat different nutrients to balance the tank out a bit.

I know it was a long post but any tips and suggestions help. I bought a 125 that will be salt as well thats going up sometime in the next week or so, any tips on cycling it? Patience Get balanced saltwater in it, get a bio source, and leave it be for a few weeks making sure there is a source of nutrients to keep the bio filter going.

Thanks in advance

I added my ideas into the quote

 

[eugenius]

The basic idea grew into the 125 would make life in the nanos easier, because I can get the 125 up and going good and use water from it to maintain the 29 and the 6 gallon. Most of my experience with salt is with my 29 gallon biocube.

I didnt really have a setup planned out per se for the 125. I wanted a few corals (nothing in specific) and some reef friendly fish. Nothing too crazy or difficult to manage. I have no real preference so I was just going to do some research, ask around, and get some beginner stuff.

Right now I am using fiji live rock in both tanks and i am not sure what type of live sand it is. I bought it from the fish store pre packaged as live sand. I have enough sand for both the nanos, the 29 needs more rock but its just kinda a toy right now. I have nothing for the 125 so I am looking here on marsh reef now for mass amounts of live rock and sand. And as far as salt goes I was using kent I believe, off the shelf from petco. I didnt know there was much of a difference between the different salts and sands.

Yea I know the lights are specific for corals. I was going to ask for advice on that next. I read some articles on lighting and have somewhat of a basic idea of what I need and the general wattage requirements, but just kinda shopping the used market right now.

 

[eugenius]

I am somewhat rushing I would agree. Researching a lot of this is not as easy as you would think. Every site and every person says different about almost every aspect. So I am just kind of going for it, researching what I can, and learning as I go. Right now the seahorse technically has his own system lol. Its just him and an anemone and a few cleaners.

 

[Houston_Reefer]

The basic idea grew into the 125 would make life in the nanos easier, because I can get the 125 up and going good and use water from it to maintain the 29 and the 6 gallon. Most of my experience with salt is with my 29 gallon biocube.

I didnt really have a setup planned out per se for the 125. I wanted a few corals (nothing in specific) and some reef friendly fish. Nothing too crazy or difficult to manage. I have no real preference so I was just going to do some research, ask around, and get some beginner stuff.

Right now I am using fiji live rock in both tanks and i am not sure what type of live sand it is. I bought it from the fish store pre packaged as live sand. I have enough sand for both the nanos, the 29 needs more rock but its just kinda a toy right now. I have nothing for the 125 so I am looking here on marsh reef now for mass amounts of live rock and sand. And as far as salt goes I was using kent I believe, off the shelf from petco. I didnt know there was much of a difference between the different salts and sands.

Yea I know the lights are specific for corals. I was going to ask for advice on that next. I read some articles on lighting and have somewhat of a basic idea of what I need and the general wattage requirements, but just kinda shopping the used market right now.

Definitely look into metal halides for the 6g. You will need it to reach the bottom! Just kidding of course. On those pico's, I have heard great things about the PAR bulbs like these http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-par38-flood-lights/

 

[eugenius]

I added my ideas into the quote

Thanks for the help! The guy at the fish store told me since i was getting the water from him it was basically cycled for the 6 gallon.... But apparently thats not 100% true lol. I will let them run for awhile. Is there any way to tell when I am cycled? I bought a chemical that is supposed to cycle or help cycle but I havent used it. After my inital experience with using the chemical I havent used any other ones...

 

[eugenius]

Definitely look into metal halides for the 6g. You will need it to reach the bottom! Just kidding of course. On those pico's, I have heard great things about the PAR bulbs like these http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-par38-flood-lights/

Those look awesome. I think I would need a different fixture tho. The stock fixture has 2 prongs instead of screw in.

 

[TiAg]

Yeah that isn't true at all, the tank itself needs to cycle - develop the bacteria that consume nitrates/nitrites/ammonia etc. Water wont do that, only rocks/sand and filter. You should check out some of the stores that specialize in SW stuff, Dennis at FJW is great and will actually have a conversation with you. The guys/gals at petco often don't know much (though I've met a couple that were pretty smart on the freshwater side).

You need to remember with saltwater it's basically a little ecosystem and it's a delicate balance. You should also get a refractometer if you don't already have one.

Oh and if hte chemical you bought is "stability" it's ok to use just use it like the directions - and don't use freshwater stuff on a saltwater tank (or vise versa) unless it specifically states it's intended for use on both.

 

[Houston_Reefer]

Thanks for the help! The guy at the fish store told me since i was getting the water from him it was basically cycled for the 6 gallon.... But apparently thats not 100% true lol. I will let them run for awhile. Is there any way to tell when I am cycled? I bought a chemical that is supposed to cycle or help cycle but I havent used it. After my inital experience with using the chemical I havent used any other ones...

The LFS guy was partially right, but not 100%. The water he sold you must have come from an active tank for him to say that, so it does have beneficial bacteria in it the will help a tank. The problem is that each thing you add stresses the bio filter and it has to get back into balance. The sponge in your tank didn't have a bio filter established and when you add rocks, sand, etc it introduces more bio load from the die-off (they eventually turn around and work for the tank) inherent with rock and sand transfer. Once those things are established, you will have an easier time managing the water quality in the pico. Regular water changes and close monitoring are your friend.

You will know the bio filter is working when nitrites go away and nitrates and phosphates go low or 0.

 

[eugenius]

Yeah that isn't true at all, the tank itself needs to cycle - develop the bacteria that consume nitrates/nitrites/ammonia etc. Water wont do that, only rocks/sand and filter. You should check out some of the stores that specialize in SW stuff, Dennis at FJW is great and will actually have a conversation with you. The guys/gals at petco often don't know much (though I've met a couple that were pretty smart on the freshwater side).

You need to remember with saltwater it's basically a little ecosystem and it's a delicate balance. You should also get a refractometer if you don't already have one.

Oh and if hte chemical you bought is "stability" it's ok to use just use it like the directions - and don't use freshwater stuff on a saltwater tank (or vise versa) unless it specifically states it's intended for use on both.

Yea well the guy who told me that was a guy at my LFS who sells a lot of saltwater fish but I wont name the guy or the shop lol.

The suspected killer of the other guys amoquell said it was for fresh and marine as did the cycle stuff (http://www.petco.com/product/13403/...Aquarium-Supplement.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch) i also bought this (http://www.petco.com/product/111801/Instant-Ocean-Natural-Nitrate-Reducer.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch) but have yet to use either of them out of paranoia lol.

 

[Houston_Reefer]

Yea well the guy who told me that was a guy at my LFS who sells a lot of saltwater fish but I wont name the guy or the shop lol.

The suspected killer of the other guys amoquell said it was for fresh and marine as did the cycle stuff (http://www.petco.com/product/13403/...Aquarium-Supplement.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch) i also bought this (http://www.petco.com/product/111801/Instant-Ocean-Natural-Nitrate-Reducer.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch) but have yet to use either of them out of paranoia lol.

I can't (and won't) say there is anything wrong with those two products. What I will say is that I personally would not use them.

 

[wendy32693]

I would definatly take the seahorse out of the same tank as a anemone, if it tries to hitch to the nem it will be stung and most likely result in death if the anemone doesnt eat it first. what kind of seahorse do you have.

 

[Elixibren]

Honestly, I've never been a big fan of "Chemical Treatments" especially for Nano's. I don't have any hard evidence to back anything up, but when you think about it, most of those chemical treatments are another chemical, designed to interact with something in your water, causing a reaction that converts it into something else. So while you may use "Nitrate Reducing" supplements, it's just converting Nitrate to something else, possibly giving you another (usually smaller) problem. In most cases, nothing beats a good ol' water change. Especially in nano systems, consistent water changes can fix a huge variety of problems.

 

[ModAquatics]

IMO the simplest way to care for Nano water chemistry is consistent small water changes and no chemical additives. You can do the consistent water changes by getting a dual head dosing pump and timer to add new water and remove old water at the same time. Dosing pumps are expensive initially but in the long run they are cheaper than adding chemicals and replacing expensive livestock. As far as the cycling is concerned I have had pretty good results using Brightwells MicroBacter. However, patience is better.