Need "experience" in my corner (1 Viewer)

[hoffy02]

Hello all,
I am a newb here and to the hobby. I havent stopped reading everything I can get my hands on for the past year in anticipation for this moment... I just purchased a 120 gallon COMPLETE SETUP for $300!!!! I will be putting it in wall with a fish room behind it. Here is where you guys come in. It is currently set up with a small sump and bio balls, I want to change it to sump/ refugium setup. maybe RDSB etc etc... But I dont know,

optimum sump size?
In sump refugium or seperate?

I am sure i will have many more questions but what i really want is "lessons learned"... What about your tank would you change if you could redo? All the stuff you only learn from experience... Remember I am starting from scratch, I dont even have the tank at my house yet!! So any suggestion's you guys have obviously could still be implemented.

Thanks in advance for the help..

Maybe I can start my OWN build thread pretty soon!!!

 

[galvezsurfer33]

yea man make sure you get somebody to drill, that really knows what they're doing! As for Sump do as large as you can! i tried a different style of refugium and sump and its really been working out ill get a picture on here later.

 

[Kemah]

my neighbor and I are both actually setting up 120's right now. I am doing mine with powerheads and that is what I voted for, but he took a different approach. We both have the old school oceanic 120's with the square corner over flow's but he took his off switched them around and put them together in the center of his tank as a single large overflow. So he obviously drilled holes there but he drilled a total of like 15 holes in the bottom and the back of the tank. he is doing a big closed loop system. I dont think he is going to use all of the holes but he has extras that will just be capped off so he can change things up easier if he wants.

I can see both sides of this matter the closed loop will probably give you a cleaner look if you know exactly how you want your flow but if you plan on changing you aqua scaping around it could make it a little more difficult. I have always liked power heards so that I can easily move flow if needed. Although I would really like to make a carlson surge device, and totally eliminate everything but the returns.

But thinking about it logically you may want to drill it and so a closed loop for now and if you dont like that you can shut it off and cap it and do power heads but it is much harder to go the other way.

 

[Kemah]

As far as drilling goes my neighbor did them all himself and had no problems he just went slow and kept the holes wet. he also used a large needle so that every few mm he could suck out all of the excess glass in the ring and put fresh water in. Also Minh a BAA used antifreeze, but water should work fine.

Get a 5 inch diameter pipe that is like 3 inches long and some plumbers putty to keep it inplace and water tight while drilling, go slow, and use a good diamond bit.

 

[Kemah]

This would be a good sump for you to start with

http://www.marshreef.com/modules.ph... 48". but I think it would be worth the work.

 

[hoffy02]

Is there any "rule of thumb" on anticipated weight? This tank will be in an upstairs "man cave". I know it will be directly over a downstairs wall so I am sure it will be fine but the mind is wandering... How could I guess at the weight of a 120 with rock, sand and so on?? I also read somewhere that if a tank is upstairs it should run perpendicular to floor joists which i dont think it would be from memory but like i said it would be right over a downstairs wall...

I am an avid DIY'er so I think I can pull off the drilling. The pipe is a good idea, hadnt thought about that.

Right now I am picturing a refugium seperate from the sump. the refugium would be gravity fed from disply tank and then overflow into sump. Then a hospital tank downstream of the drain on the closed loop system (if i go that way) so that water may be stolen when that tank is needed for QT or whatever. I like the idea of a seperate refugium as to increase overall system volume but am i overdoing it here?

I would love to see the pics with an explanation Galvezsurfer!
Appreciate the input guys

 

[Kemah]

No I dont think you are over doing it. I am actually going to put a skimmer in a drilled 40 breeder that will be up on a shelf and that is going to just be skimmer and water. I am probably going to do a fuge in my sump but i also plan on adding a frag tank. But the higher the water volume the easier it is but at the same time the more tanks and fittings that you have the more chance of having leaks. If you are doing all of your plumbing under your tank I wouldnt do a separate fuge because you probably wont have enough space.

I would really like to see a diagram of what you want to do with the different tanks and the closed loop.

 

[Kemah]

8.5lbs x gals of water + rock weight+ sand weight+ tank weight= should be close enough to your total tank weight.

 

[hoffy02]

I am not even sure this will work but here you go.. A VERY crude and simple drawing.. You will get the picture though..

 

[Kemah]

That seems to look pretty good to me but I will have hank take a look at it and hopefully some others will look at it too and give there opinion.

one thing I do see is you probably dont need the RODI tank you could just use a RODI unit with a float valve into the sump and then have it split before the line to the sump and have a valve that you can turn on and off into the tank for water changes. I am doing something similar to this. But the auto top off needs to go into the last chamber of your sump where your water level changes. Even if it is not on a float valve this is the easiest place to see where the level needs to be.

also I hear you about the vertical space but the salth20 tank wich I am assuming is for water changes will probably need a pump and can be anywhere but you could drill the bottom and put in a bulkhead that goes to a ball valve and just drain it into your tank that way.

If it is for the Hospital tank put it up high and have an overflow but just put another pump in your tank to feed it and let it run all of the time with your system, but have it setup so that you can completely take it offline if you need to quarantine something.

 

[hoffy02]

Its not shown on my crude drawing but the overflow off the display would be split to drain to refuge and sump in order to control flow to refuge. also the refuge would drain into return part of sump as to bypass filtration...

 

[hoffy02]

Sweet! one less tank! I guess i was thinking about always having Salt water at the ready, I dont need the RO water tank.
About the hospital tank, you are saying have it setup to circulate with main tank at all times and the just isolate as needed? I guess that would also increase volume... I dont mind buying all the pumps I may need but with the closed loop I am trying to keep down total watts... Guess that is a never ending battle.

The setup I am getting has "ice cap 660's" (i think) but no bulbs, what do I need to do in the way of bulbs?
I know it is more complicated than that, I want to have a mixed tank, some hard and soft corals, would like some of those sweet lookin clams and I know those take a ton of light right?

 

[Kemah]

how many bulbs does the canopy have? based on that I can get you an answer. But you may have a little different taste. Personally I like a little more blue look. I will have 8 bulbs run with 2 ic660 ballasts over mine probably 5 will be actinic +.

As far as the hospital tank I think that there would be no problem doing it and you could run it with a pretty small pump (probably 300-600gph) and just put in valves incase you need them. I would keep it bare bottom with some live rock in it.

with t-5 lighting you should have no problem with any corals or clams.

 

[Kemah]

Also save room for a frag tank. I promise you will want one soon especially with a tank room. 8)

 

[d2mini]

Also save room for a frag tank. I promise you will want one soon especially with a tank room. 8)

Definitely something I would want if I had a whole tank room to play with. But I don't so I can't.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

one thing I do see is you probably dont need the RODI tank you could just use a RODI unit with a float valve into the sump and then have it split before the line to the sump and have a valve that you can turn on and off into the tank for water changes. I am doing something similar to this. But the auto top off needs to go into the last chamber of your sump where your water level changes. Even if it is not on a float valve this is the easiest place to see where the level needs to be.

In general, we recommend against this approach. Two reasons:
1. Every time your sump livel drops just a tiny bit, the float valve will call for water and the RODI system will kick on for a short period, and then turn off. It will repeatedly ccle on and off throughout the day, 24/7. Because RO systems push out some not-so-clean water when they are first turned on, and for about a minute or so afterward (called "TDS creep"), a high percentage of the water that is supplied to your sump will be this high tds water.

2. When (not if) the float valve in your sump malfunctions (for any number of reasons), the RO system will be stuck in the "on" position and will pump and pump and pump fresh DI water to your system. If you don't happen to notice what is going on, you have potential to nuke your tank by significantly lowering the salinity, and you have the potential to overflow your sump and have a flood.

A better set up to fill a reservoir that is sized appropriately and have it gravity feed to a float in the sump.

Russ

 

[hoffy02]

Ok so now I am back to an extra tank! WHat would be "appropriately sized"?? You mean that if the float valve failed and dumped all water to tank it wouldnt overflow the system?

I hadnt thought about a frag tank yet but i guess the deeper I get into this hobby the more things I will want or need, so the frag tank space will be allotted...

Thanks for all the advice so far. Its this kind of "experience" I'm after.

I will be picking up the tank and supplies Saturday in the Woodlands area and when I get it all home I will let you guys know what I have so you can give me some direction...

Keep all the advice coming!!

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Some things to think about in sizing that tank:

The RODI system should be run at lease once a week.

You don't want the tank to be 100% emptied between fill ups.

You don't want a lot of extra water in that tank because you want to limit the amount of water supplied to your sump in the case of the failure of a float valve or oter top off device.

One reasonable approach: Size the reservoir to hold about 1.1 times the weekly evaporation, and fill the reservoir no less often than once a week.

Russ

 

[Guest]

I use about a 10 gallon container for my 155 gallon system. I usually only evaporate about 5 gallons a week though. What Russ is saying makes sense, but I'm just too lazy and sometimes I might not fill up the reservoir on the seventh day exactly.

 

[hoffy02]

Well I picked everything up today... The short list is the tank, 120g, 72"x24hx 18d, a skimmer that looks like a freak of nature!! its 4' high!! 5- Maxi jet 1200's, 3 rio 1200's i think?? A sump that seems too small to me, about 30 gallons. 4 bulbs 2 aqua suns and 2 super actinics i think?? one ice cap 660 ballast. Trash can full of live rock, and some holey rock and some plumbing and chemicals and test kits..... Now reading about all this stuff is one thing but seeing it all here is another!! I am soooo lost. I am still undecided about how to set all this up?? I will post pics in the morning of what I have and solicit all info I can get from you guys about what I have... And whether its any good or not as well as a path forward.. thanks again guys