Problem in new house - builder won't fix (1 Viewer)

[adahm]

Sorry for the long post, I just am frustrated the the situation I am in and would appreciate any help/advice.

So I had newly built house four months ago and about two months back we noticed water dripping through the kitchen ceiling when the shower was being used in a bathroom above the kitchen. This was incidentally the first time the shower was used.

I quickly had the shower stopped and noticed that some water had gotten past the shower curtain on to the tile floor. The amount of water on the floor was no more than 2 to 3 cups. I threw a towel on it an soaked it up.

We contacted the builder who came by and made a couple holes in the ceiling and had a plumber tested out all the plumbing but found no leaks.

So I poured a quart of water on the floor next to the bathtub and sure enough two minutes later I was able to see water coming through a drain line about 4 feet away from where I had poured the water.

Called the builder again who stated that the floor is not made to prevent water coming through and the issue is not warrantable and that a quart of water is a lot of water in fact no water should be splashing on the bathroom floor if we new how to take a shower.

After a few arguments, phone calls, visits by construction manager and his boss, and them telling me that bathroom floors are not made to have water splashed on, I finally asked why they would construct a bathroom floor slanted towards a hole in the subfloor where a drainpipe was coming through so water flows toward it, they conceded that the floor should not be slanted but they would fix only if it falls beyond certain tolerances as defined in the home warranty.

I have a feeling that something funny is going on with water coming through so fast and think I should get someone to have a look to get a consultation so that the builder does not give me a runaround. At the end of the day it is a bathroom and the floor will get a little wet with kids using it.

Problem is I don't know who and what I should ask of them. I called a home inspector who basically said he could not help with the situation. Not sure who else I can call to consult. I am willing to pay for their time.

On the other hand I was telling my wife we could probably rip out the tile and have the floor done properly, but I some how feel being cheated and its frustrating.

I would greatly appreciate any advice.

 

[Diesel]

Bro, one word BAD BUILDER!!.
Your floor should hold some water before it seeps down in subfloor into kitchen below.
Every tile floor should almost be water tide, just think about your shower.
Now in showers the use a schluter shower pan....... Shower Systems - Schluter-Systems
The floor is a easy fix, check for lose tile and cracks in the grout.
Grout can be removed and install a epoxy grout, around the tube you use Silicone color grout as that will prevent cracks and of course leaks.
Who was your builder? PM me if you don't want to step on any ones toes.

 

[adahm]

Thanks Diesel. I am not comfortable taking the name of the builder on open forum.

They have been pretty rude though and consistently have said that grout is porous and cannot hold water

I have pointed out that a tile floor should hold water for a while, at least long enough to bee able to mop it up and water should not be coming through in 2 minutes, but its my word against theirs.

There no cracks in the grout, but when I step on the tiles right next to the bathtub, I do hear a slight crunch sound. I pointed this out to the builder also, and they said since the grout is not cracked there is point removing the tile at the moment.

Another concern I have is mold and rot..even without water splashing bathroom will be moist and mold can develop.

Also have been researching a lot on bathroom construction and found out about shulter ditra and kerdiband etc. And epoxy grout.

I do know that none of those were used, the construction is hardibacker on subfloor and tile on top. I seem to recall them screwing the hardibacker to floor instead of epoxy but I don't have a picture.

This is a mass builder in a subdivision and not a custom home builder. This pretty much how all their homes are constructed.

 

[Diesel]

Take him to court, that's I would do or call a local TV station, they all have a consumer protection segment in their news show.
You're getting screwed as of now, if this is a new house not sure what's going to happen in a year or two.
You might check with your mortgage company as a new home has a I believe a 12 month protection for the buyer as the builder is at fault, and clearly he is.
A crunch sound under a tile floor that's a no brainer, BIG RED FLAG!!

Btw, I got your PM, as I said "BAD BUILDER" now I know the name.
I have a meeting tomorrow with my attorney who knows the inside outs on construction laws, I'll bring it up and see what he says.

 

[RR-MAN]

Dont' worry adahm this is a very common problem with new homes. Have seen it happne many many times. Most likley water leaking from the tub...call another plumber.

Trust me it's not that easy to take these builders to court for something so minute. My neighbor had a crack in his foundation more than 10" long and attorney could not do much for him.

 

[jhill9]

I have a hard time believing that water would be getting through the tile and grout that quickly. Sounds like a plumbing problem to me. I am with RR-Man, hire your own plumber and find the real issue. Then send the bill to the builder/home warranty company.

 

[adahm]

Have checked the plumbing.... there is no leak in the supply plumbing or the drains. It is flowing around the outside of the drain pipe (not the bath tub drain pipe) and only when water is poured on the floor.

I know its hard to believe...which is the reason we thought it is clearly a construction issue....we even demonstrated this to the builder and the builders response is that water should not be poured on the floor, nor should ANY water be on the floor at any time, a tile floor is not waterproof and water leaking through a floor is not a warrantable problem.

 

[jhill9]

How big of a bathroom are we talking about? Sounds like a track home so the tile isn't expensive. Pull tile, place waterproof membrane, new tile, drink beer. Weekend project if you are handy.

 

[adahm]

They did send a tile guy to check if the floor was out of level. They did find that is was not level.

The tile guy asked my wife why there was water on the floor and stated that we obviously do not know that there should be no water on a bathroom floor. My wife basically told him she did not want to argue and if he was done with what he needed to do he could leave.

 

[rlpardue]

For a minor (sub-$10k) repair job, court isn't a good option. You could have an attorney you know write a demand letter and utter the words "Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act," and "treble damages" and see if the builder flinches a bit. (Don't do this without an attorney). It could make things worse though.

Best option is to have it repaired yourself then see if you can get lucky and recoup the costs

 

[reefling]

If the floor is slanted slightly the water is not going through the tile and grout. They probably did not caulk very well where the tile meets the moulding and tub/shower. If you want, you can seal the grout for a couple dollars. That needs to be done yearly anyway.

 

[steveb]

Something is screwy... to say water should never get on the floor is lunacy. Every time my kids took a shower water got everywhere... My son is now out of the house but my daughter gets water (I would guess 3 - 4 cups at least, if not more) on the floor all of the time and we have never had water come through the tile/grout/hardy backer board down to the ceiling on the lower level....I think your builder if full of cow manure.

Only time we have ever had water come through was when she was younger and she and girl friend decided to "surf" in the bathtub spilling gallons out...

 

[adahm]

Something is screwy... to say water should never get on the floor is lunacy. Every time my kids took a shower water got everywhere... My son is now out of the house but my daughter gets water (I would guess 3 - 4 cups at least, if not more) on the floor all of the time and we have never had water come through the tile/grout/hardy backer board down to the ceiling on the lower level....I think your builder if full of cow manure.

Only time we have ever had water come through was when she was younger and she and girl friend decided to "surf" in the bathtub spilling gallons out...

This.

We agree water can come through, but not this much and not this fast.

So what's the solution?

While I acknowledge water can come through, how come the builder can keep a straight face and not acknowledge that the amount of water it takes to start the leak and the speed at which it comes through is unreasonable?

BTW the other two bathrooms that are also upstairs DON'T (correction) have the same problem

 

[steveb]

While I acknowledge water can come through, how come the builder can keep a straight face and not acknowledge that the amount of water it takes to start the leak and the speed at which it comes through is unreasonable?

They are a cows sphincter...


I have no idea about what to do...

If the home was built in area that require inspection/approval you might try bringing in a city/county building inspector.

to bad there is no local - Holmes makes it right....

I like the idea of seeing if one of the local TV stations might film and shame the builder on your behalf.

I'm a person of principle and would at least consult with a construction attorney.

At the end of the day you paid a lot of money for a new home. To have to turn around and "fix" it yourself is ridiculous. I don't think you are being overly picky.

 

[Mark L.]

This does seem very strange. I've personally tore apart and remodeled a lot of bathrooms. Built two upstairs bathrooms from scratch as well. Can you pour water on the floor and see exactly where it's leaking through? It may be an easy fix you can do. I understand it's principle and you shouldn't have to fix it but this won't be an easy fight. These builders that throw up subdivision over night deal with these issues every single day. They avoid fixing (aka spending money) at all costs. A very close friend of mine works for a mass home builder. His job is to inspect homes and new owners complaints to see if they are considered under warranty. He walks the homes and completes a punch list of things that needs to be fixed. Let me tell you, He does NOT like turning in long punch lists to his boss. Good luck but a few tubes of caulk and some grout sealant may just do the trick.