Sump Help Please (1 Viewer)

[haze_9]

Hello all,

A while back I posted that I was building my sump and plumbing up my 55 gallon tank. Well everything runs smoothly except I can't keep the water level stable. I have a mag 12 pump, and all the plumbing is 1 inch PVC. I now have 3 valves trying to get it to all stable out and I can't seem to get it balanced. I have adjusted and adjusted the valves trying to get the inlet and outlet flows to match. Just can't seem to get it right. I will think I have it balanced and walk away for 2 hours and boom the level has changed. Sometimes its the pump isn't pulling the water out of the sump fast enough and sometimes it is pulling it out to fast. I have researched and researched... what am I doing wrong?? Can anyone offer advice PLease or IS there anyone on the SW side that might be willing to come over and help. Or is my pump pumping inconsistant? I am soooo Frustrated!!!

Thanks,
Dixie

Here are a few pics from when I built it. The third valve is just above the pump. You just can't see it in the pics.

 

[wazzel]

From your explanation I do not really follow what you are doing.

Do you have an overflow? I can not tell from the pictures.

 

[haze_9]

No over flow. I drilled the back of the tank... Here is a larger Picture...

 

[haze_9]

 

[wazzel]

OK I think I see it now. The way you have you plumbing you are asking for a flood. You need to do something so that you drain line is wide oped and not used to ste the water level in the tank. My suggestion would be a upward looking tee with a wye on top, then a cap with a hole to adjust the air flow so it is quiet. I should look similar to this, just the upper part.

These are before the adjustabe holes

Here it is after the cap were installed. I cross drilled some holes so I could turn the cap to adjust the air flow. Trust me you will need them.

Once you get that installed open all your valves all the way them use you bypass to dial in the correct flow. Another way would be to close the bypass all the way, close the pump valve about half way, start the pump, the slowly open the pump valve until you get the flow dialed in.

I hope this is clear.

 

[wazzel]

One more thing do not glue the piping to the bulkhead. You may need to turn them to fine tune your water level. Start with them down a bit so you do not overflow.

 

[haze_9]

Not really understanding the concept you are describing.

But let me say that I do not have the bulk heads glued down and I can adjust the angle on them. I tilted them up so that when the water level on the tank dropped it would break the vaccume and no more water would come out, just in case the power were to go out. Therefore preventing a flood. I also left enough room in the sump to have the water drain into there without flooding. My problem not is when the pump is running the level on the water keeps fluxuating up and down. I can't tune the flow. I have tried every variation I can and I will get it stable for like 3 hours and then the level will start rising or falling. I really don't know how to explain this. grrrr *Uber frustrated*

 

[wazzel]

Since you are trying to match the flows exactly with valves you will constently be adjusting to make it work. You need to set up a "weir type thing" in your tank to set the level. Pointing the elbows strait up would do it, but it would more than likely be loud. Doing this would allow you to run the drain wide open. I think having the drain so deep in your sump is probably making the situation worse. I run and have run every tank with the return right at the water line in the sump. Cut the pipe so that you can put an elbow on the bottom and have the hole half in and half out the water. I also put a short run of pipe on the elbow so I do not get any splash. Here you can see how my return lines run right at the water line.

 

[mikebeth16]

Do you have the two drain pipes joining each other behind the tank and then going down to the sump? It's hard to tell from the picture if they go down together or not.

Either way, that's a lot of water (from the Mag 12) to try drain with one or two 1" drains. That's why you can't allow the pump to run full speed without pumping water out of the sump and into the display too quickly - even if the reefcentral calulator says it should work.

If I were you, I would probably drill another 1" drain. Don't just take my word, though. Go here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm. Go down to the "About Plumbing" section.

 

[ShaneV]

My suggestion would to be to partially drain the main tank and do one of tow things.

1) Put in small overflow boxes just at the top.
2) Put in an elblow pointing upwards and enough PVC where you want your water level to be.

As long as your trying to push the water above the bulkhead area with flow alone youll never get it balanced.
Option 1 is probally your best route over all. Maybe a box thats from near the top of your tank to about an inch bellow your bulkhead.

 

[wazzel]

Do you have the two drain pipes joining each other behind the tank and then going down to the sump? It's hard to tell from the picture if they go down together or not.

Either way, that's a lot of water (from the Mag 12) to try drain with one or two 1" drains. That's why you can't allow the pump to run full speed without pumping water out of the sump and into the display too quickly - even if the reefcentral calulator says it should work.

If I were you, I would probably drill another 1" drain. Don't just take my word, though. Go here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm. Go down to the "About Plumbing" section.

IF you look close the two are teed into one. So it is in essense a single 1" line. Splitting that into two will help a bunch. I did not notice that at first.

 

[Guest]

something that I have learned is while running
my skimmer drain and was scratching my
head was skimmer wouldn't work right unless
angle of pvc pipe was at a angle in the water,
sometimes the water would actually back up in
the tube. But now looking at the pix more almost
looks like your drain size isn't much bigger
than you inlet size. My drain size is 1" bigger
than my inlet size. Also note: all pvc size is
1" you mentioned. Try switching to 1 1/2 to 2"
drain., plus will stop back vacuum noise

 

[Scott]

First of all, you NEED a wier to maintain a constant level in the tank. The level inside the overflow will change but the level in the tank will remain constant.

Second, you CANNOT fine tune flow with a ball valve. I don't care if some people say you can, all you really did was adjust to an acceptable level and ran with it while the level in the wier still fluctuated (which is fine). To fine tune and fix your problem with a valve you would have to have a globe valve or a needle valve, a gate valve will help though.

Third, the current running to your electric motor (mag drive pump) fluctuates constantly unless you run on a UPS and I didn't see one. The reason this is important to you is that as current fluctuates so does the power of the motor and therefore the output. On a large system this may not be enough to notice but it may be on a smaller system. I do not know and I am not taking the time to do the calculations. The best way to prevent the presence of this fluctuation is a wier.

I hope you noticed a theme in these three discussions. :cough: - wier - :cough:, even an overflow box has teeth that will allow water to flow through into the box and therefore maintain a constant tank level.

You had a great idea there and you did a real pretty job plumbing (symmetry, straight/ level), but it's just not gonna work the way you want it to. Sorry.

Oh yeah, sorry if I might have seemed a little short tempered with my rant but it's been a long day and I am tired. I hope this helped.