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Ulns + higher Kh = alkalinity burn? (1 Viewer)

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trplacek

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Was wondering if this statement is true. A couple months ago I apparently had some bad reagent for red sea Kh test and was reading steady at a supposedly 8.1 dkh. Everything looked pretty good. I bought some new reagent to find out that my dkh was actually 9.8. I did not check No3 or Po4 back then. But algae was definitely more prominent then. I then upgraded my skimmer and right away saw a huge difference in skimmate and was also running gfo. Then I started losing color on some sps my 3 birdsnest especially. I started getting white patches which now have some algae growing on those dead patches. In the past month I took gfo offline and started dosing nitrates and since hAve slowly been dropping my kh. Things seem to have leveled off again and looks like most of the sps is turning around. So my question is, was the cause for this because my dkh was high and I then stripped my tank of nutrients?
 

Diesel

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Ulns has been used so much I dont know where to begin with what it "really" is. However for the sake of this article it means that you have a no3 and po4 deficit.
What is a no3 and po4 deficit you ask? It means that if you were to dose phosphorus and nitrogen in to the system that it would eat it up and get you down to 0 ppm without any water changes.

Contrary to popular belief. A REAL 0 ppm no3 and po4 reading is a major problem. You will witness corals pale, turn bone white, while people tell you to feed more or turn down the lights. There is some truth to this but let us get to the heart of the matter shall we?

A long time ago some old guy (who is gone now) discovered something called the redfield ratio. (google this for more info as i will do a synopsis)
Redfield ratio and all it's spin-off theories state that photosynthesis occurs in the ocean at a near universal rate of 106C:16:no3:1 po4.

Now while I wont get in to the deviations of benthic macroalgae or of other life. It is a REAL GOOD IDEA to use it as a guideline.

So what does that mean to the aquarist?
Well it means if you do not have no3, or po4, or carbon.... bye bye corals. They have nothing to photosynthesize. They cant use alternative fuel like lithium or plutonium to synthesize... so they pale. The zooxanthellae which is a dinoflagellate is the same as algae. (in layman's terms). They need it. And you probably have just enough no3 and po4 to get them hold on for dear life.

How do we solve it?
Well we know that po4 is the LEAST needed for photosynthesis. So getting it is easy to come by. Even by my tank which sucks up nutrients like a sponge. Every time you feed, touch, or even look at the tank, po4 will be in the water column. The only exception to this is a GFO overdose. If you are overdosing GFO you will basically have nothing for it to photosynthesize. Remember the redfield ratio of 16no3 to 1po4? yeah... it's a marriage. Need em all buddy. So make sure you have some.

I have observed that po4 measurements of .02ish is optimum. However up to .08 is fine as well. (although some life will get irked)

no3 should be around 2ppm - 5ppm for optimal coral coloration. If 2ppm or below is observed for longer than a week, corals will pale. Mine will pale within 72 hours. It is essential to keep no3 above po4 to prevent nuisance algae like GHA and to not get in to the cyano trap of po4 being greater than no3.

How do we avoid this? Well we can use sodium nitrate (the byproduct is salt and relatively safe) or potassium nitrate (byproduct can be potassium and possibly overdose). I choose the latter because I do have a potassium kit and it is readily available within Seachem's Flourish Nitrogen formula. Care should be taken and warning should be given. I have not observed any detrimental effects, however if you want to go the powdered "pure" route, you can look up salt peter or spectracide stump remover from lowes which is essentially the same stuff.

Alkalinity has been also an issue with ULNS. I have observed alk above 8 to make my birdnest recede and even RTN if approaching the 9s. Many a birdnest I have lost wondering what my issue was until I dropped alk down to the 7s. I personally maintain alk between 7.2 and 7.8 at all times. At 8 or above... my sps get irritable. This could also be the issue with ulns and high alk where burnt tips occur due to the skeletal formation of calcium carbonate forming faster than the photosynthetic ability of the coral via the zooxanthellae.

LIGHT:
If you have strong strong light and you have no nutrients, you are really just stressing the heck out of the sps because there is nothing to photosynthesize. You need these nutrients, and the less you have, the lesser your light should be discourage photosynthesis. We are always told more light, more par, more pur, but in the end, if the building blocks are not there... degradation occurs. There is no reason to have a 1000 hp engine, if you have no gas to go somewhere.
 
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trplacek

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Thanks for the reply Diesel. I will continue to lower my kh. It's now at 8.4 dkh. Its good to finally know the main reason for my birdsnest looking so sickly.
 

PSXerholic

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In addition to what Ben already mentioned, I experienced by using GFO in combo with a high performance skimmer in the past, an extreme "extraction" of Strontium.
That low Strontium led my Pink birdsnest to whiten out, and finally STN or slowly dying.

Since I corrected the SR level to around 4-8ppm, the Birdsnest recovers pretty quick as well as other corals that started paling a bit.
I use my pink birdsnest now these days as an indicator for stripped strontium.
Seems this is the first that is affected visually.

Try that, SR test from Salifert is what I use.
 

PSXerholic

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ULNS and high ALK does cause ALK burn and you will noticed white Acros and burned tips similar to new growth.
I keep ALK in a range between 7.5 morning and 6.5 evening when extremely low on the PO4 and NO3 limits to avoid the burn which usually occurs at 8.5-9.0 in my tank.
 

FarmerTy

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Ulns has been used so much I dont know where to begin with what it "really" is. However for the sake of this article it means that you have a no3 and po4 deficit.
What is a no3 and po4 deficit you ask? It means that if you were to dose phosphorus and nitrogen in to the system that it would eat it up and get you down to 0 ppm without any water changes.

Contrary to popular belief. A REAL 0 ppm no3 and po4 reading is a major problem. You will witness corals pale, turn bone white, while people tell you to feed more or turn down the lights. There is some truth to this but let us get to the heart of the matter shall we?

A long time ago some old guy (who is gone now) discovered something called the redfield ratio. (google this for more info as i will do a synopsis)
Redfield ratio and all it's spin-off theories state that photosynthesis occurs in the ocean at a near universal rate of 106C:16:no3:1 po4.

Now while I wont get in to the deviations of benthic macroalgae or of other life. It is a REAL GOOD IDEA to use it as a guideline.

So what does that mean to the aquarist?
Well it means if you do not have no3, or po4, or carbon.... bye bye corals. They have nothing to photosynthesize. They cant use alternative fuel like lithium or plutonium to synthesize... so they pale. The zooxanthellae which is a dinoflagellate is the same as algae. (in layman's terms). They need it. And you probably have just enough no3 and po4 to get them hold on for dear life.

How do we solve it?
Well we know that po4 is the LEAST needed for photosynthesis. So getting it is easy to come by. Even by my tank which sucks up nutrients like a sponge. Every time you feed, touch, or even look at the tank, po4 will be in the water column. The only exception to this is a GFO overdose. If you are overdosing GFO you will basically have nothing for it to photosynthesize. Remember the redfield ratio of 16no3 to 1po4? yeah... it's a marriage. Need em all buddy. So make sure you have some.

I have observed that po4 measurements of .02ish is optimum. However up to .08 is fine as well. (although some life will get irked)

no3 should be around 2ppm - 5ppm for optimal coral coloration. If 2ppm or below is observed for longer than a week, corals will pale. Mine will pale within 72 hours. It is essential to keep no3 above po4 to prevent nuisance algae like GHA and to not get in to the cyano trap of po4 being greater than no3.

How do we avoid this? Well we can use sodium nitrate (the byproduct is salt and relatively safe) or potassium nitrate (byproduct can be potassium and possibly overdose). I choose the latter because I do have a potassium kit and it is readily available within Seachem's Flourish Nitrogen formula. Care should be taken and warning should be given. I have not observed any detrimental effects, however if you want to go the powdered "pure" route, you can look up salt peter or spectracide stump remover from lowes which is essentially the same stuff.

Alkalinity has been also an issue with ULNS. I have observed alk above 8 to make my birdnest recede and even RTN if approaching the 9s. Many a birdnest I have lost wondering what my issue was until I dropped alk down to the 7s. I personally maintain alk between 7.2 and 7.8 at all times. At 8 or above... my sps get irritable. This could also be the issue with ulns and high alk where burnt tips occur due to the skeletal formation of calcium carbonate forming faster than the photosynthetic ability of the coral via the zooxanthellae.

LIGHT:
If you have strong strong light and you have no nutrients, you are really just stressing the heck out of the sps because there is nothing to photosynthesize. You need these nutrients, and the less you have, the lesser your light should be discourage photosynthesis. We are always told more light, more par, more pur, but in the end, if the building blocks are not there... degradation occurs. There is no reason to have a 1000 hp engine, if you have no gas to go somewhere.
Great summary!
 
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