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Bangaii Cardinals (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jaypilot
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Alright day 4 is here and I believe he is still holding eggs. Reason I am not sure is because his mouth seems to be a little smaller then it was yesterday, but still bigger then normal and he is still not eating.
So my question is, does the male some how eat the bad eggs and continue to circulate the good eggs? I still see his mouth open and close every once in a wile almost as if he is moving eggs around. So Im not sure what to make of all this.
So my question is, does the male some how eat the bad eggs and continue to circulate the good eggs? I still see his mouth open and close every once in a wile almost as if he is moving eggs around. So Im not sure what to make of all this.
So my cardinal has been holding for 7 days now I believe. My question is, it doesn't seem like the males mouth is extended anymore but he isn't eating either. Is it possible that he may still be holding a few eggs in their and thats why he isn't eating or do you think he spit them all or eat them all?
He's eating the eggs. They don't eat while holding the eggs, so if he's hungry he'll eat them.
Yup,, I agree, he is eating today which means he is no longer holding eggs.
On a more interesting note I have a second pair of cardinals in a different tank that is holding eggs now. The interesting part about this pair is that they are in a small reef tank with another pair of B&W clowns and the female is defending the male from the clowns like I have never seen before.
My first pair is in a breeding tank all by theme self so they are really easy to get too if or when I ever have a male hold for 20+ days. So how does one get the male to a safer tank for the fry if the male holds to term in a reef tank?
rlpardue
Supporting Member
On the 23-ish day after the male starts holding the eggs, you go over to the tank after the lights have been out (I do mine at 2am on Friday evenings) for a few hours, put your net in the tank, then have your spouse turn on the lights. I even have mine shine a flashlight in the male's eyes, although this isn't necessary. Then while the male's eyes are adjusting and he's disoriented, you net him gently and move him to a breeding tank that's plumbed into the main DT (or was just filled with DT water).
Hmmm thats great. I have never heard of that technique before, but it seems like you could use that technique with any type of fish.
rlpardue
Supporting Member
Keep in mind that the male may spit some or all of the babies out into the net. (So take a look in the net before putting it on top of your canopy) 
Jason
Guest
rlpardue
Supporting Member
It would depend on the number/size/appetite of the other tank inhabitants, as well as your water flow, aggressiveness of return pump, etc. Also a long-spined sea urchin would help, but those things are annoying because they bulldoze everything. (In nature the babies live amidst the spines of a sea urchin. Also, you gotta remember that they are so small that netting them carries substantial risk of damaging fins, etc. You could maybe catch a couple, but if you really want to get 'em you probably need to capture the male 1-2 days before he was planning to spit.
Interestingly, I noticed today that my male is carrying far fewer eggs/fry in his mouth-his bulge is almost nonexistant but he still won't eat. I guess he ate part of this batch.
If I knew what your tank was like, I could give you better odds on catching some babies. Basically the pumps and fish are hungry for Banggai fry
Interestingly, I noticed today that my male is carrying far fewer eggs/fry in his mouth-his bulge is almost nonexistant but he still won't eat. I guess he ate part of this batch.
If I knew what your tank was like, I could give you better odds on catching some babies. Basically the pumps and fish are hungry for Banggai fry
Thanks Rlpardue,
That is pretty much what I expected. My second pair that is holding now I believe they are on day 6 now, which is a mile stone for me (my other male never made it past day 6).
My tank,
55g DIY tank that in many ways is like a Bio cube in the since that it is an all in one unit. It is filled with rock about 12" high and the tank itself is about 30" high". The water flow is only about 500GPH after the head rise. And for the live stock it only has a pair of B&W clowns and also the pair of cardinals.
I think I'm going to have my work cut out for me trying to catch the male being that its a deep tank and my access hole in the top of the tank is not that big, but I think its my only choice.
If I am successful at catching the male, can I place him in a breeding box or are the slots in the side two wide for the fry. I already have two boxes and would rather use them rather then the breeder nets if at all possible?
If my male is still holding on day 18 I plan on trying to pull him. That way if he spits the fry I still MAY have a chance at keeping a few of them and hopefully at that point the male is week enough and much easier to catch with out stressing him out too much.
That is pretty much what I expected. My second pair that is holding now I believe they are on day 6 now, which is a mile stone for me (my other male never made it past day 6).
My tank,
55g DIY tank that in many ways is like a Bio cube in the since that it is an all in one unit. It is filled with rock about 12" high and the tank itself is about 30" high". The water flow is only about 500GPH after the head rise. And for the live stock it only has a pair of B&W clowns and also the pair of cardinals.
I think I'm going to have my work cut out for me trying to catch the male being that its a deep tank and my access hole in the top of the tank is not that big, but I think its my only choice.
If I am successful at catching the male, can I place him in a breeding box or are the slots in the side two wide for the fry. I already have two boxes and would rather use them rather then the breeder nets if at all possible?
If my male is still holding on day 18 I plan on trying to pull him. That way if he spits the fry I still MAY have a chance at keeping a few of them and hopefully at that point the male is week enough and much easier to catch with out stressing him out too much.
rlpardue
Supporting Member
It sounds like you may actually have a tank that could allow you to raise the fry in-place. With 500 GPH in a 55g tank, the filtration shouldn't be a big problem so long as you cover the overflow or filter intake with some kind of netting. Feeding could be an issue.
The clowns would probably eat them, although they couldn't eat many in one sitting. Small or medium-sized percula/ocellaris clowns should be ok though.
The breeder's box would probably be fine for the male. Once he spits the babies though, you might want to consider moving the babies to a small tank, possibly plumbed into your system. The reason is that baby brine shrimp ("BBS") might flow out of the breeder's box before the babies are full. I haven't seen your box but it's possible that this won't be a problem. You will start having aggression issues down the road if they're all in the same small container. Just a couple of things for you to think about here.
My thoughts on when to pull the male - you may want to think about waiting a little longer (past 18-day mark) to catch and separate the male. I believe full-term is 25 days. My male once held a couple days longer than that. But if he spits them out too early they may have 'premature birth' issues. If you wait until day 23 then the babies should be fine if he happens to get stressed and spit them out in the netting process (a couple will probably slip out). I think this is the reason you chose day 18 - perhaps just nudge the deadline back a bit more. I think day 22 is a pretty safe bet.
The clowns would probably eat them, although they couldn't eat many in one sitting. Small or medium-sized percula/ocellaris clowns should be ok though.
The breeder's box would probably be fine for the male. Once he spits the babies though, you might want to consider moving the babies to a small tank, possibly plumbed into your system. The reason is that baby brine shrimp ("BBS") might flow out of the breeder's box before the babies are full. I haven't seen your box but it's possible that this won't be a problem. You will start having aggression issues down the road if they're all in the same small container. Just a couple of things for you to think about here.
My thoughts on when to pull the male - you may want to think about waiting a little longer (past 18-day mark) to catch and separate the male. I believe full-term is 25 days. My male once held a couple days longer than that. But if he spits them out too early they may have 'premature birth' issues. If you wait until day 23 then the babies should be fine if he happens to get stressed and spit them out in the netting process (a couple will probably slip out). I think this is the reason you chose day 18 - perhaps just nudge the deadline back a bit more. I think day 22 is a pretty safe bet.
rlpardue,
Thanks for your input, I believe I am on day 7 now and the male's mouth is still vary big so there is no mistaking that he is still holding.
As far as the breeder box goes its just the normal plastic one that you can buy at petco, so nothing special there. As you stated I am only using this box for the male to spit the fry in and then I will move the fry to a 10g tank. If all goes well I will have a 10g tank filled with the parent tank's water. I have a 20g HOB filter that I will be using for filtration along with a few pieces of live rock from the parent tank. I plan on dividing the tank, so that the intake of the of the HOB filter is on one side of the divider and the return is on the other side (so that the fish don't get sucked in). On the intake side of the tank I will place the live rock and the heater and on the fry side I will place either a DIY sea urchin or a small plant. So basically it will be about a 2g sump and an 8g grow out.
I just picked up a brine shrimp hatchery kit along with Kent's Zoecon, to try to soak the BBS in and I am also soaking my pellets in the zoecon for my clowns as well.
So with any luck I will have my first fry soon in my saltwater tanks,
Thanks for your input, I believe I am on day 7 now and the male's mouth is still vary big so there is no mistaking that he is still holding.
As far as the breeder box goes its just the normal plastic one that you can buy at petco, so nothing special there. As you stated I am only using this box for the male to spit the fry in and then I will move the fry to a 10g tank. If all goes well I will have a 10g tank filled with the parent tank's water. I have a 20g HOB filter that I will be using for filtration along with a few pieces of live rock from the parent tank. I plan on dividing the tank, so that the intake of the of the HOB filter is on one side of the divider and the return is on the other side (so that the fish don't get sucked in). On the intake side of the tank I will place the live rock and the heater and on the fry side I will place either a DIY sea urchin or a small plant. So basically it will be about a 2g sump and an 8g grow out.
I just picked up a brine shrimp hatchery kit along with Kent's Zoecon, to try to soak the BBS in and I am also soaking my pellets in the zoecon for my clowns as well.
So with any luck I will have my first fry soon in my saltwater tanks,
rlpardue
Supporting Member
Sounds cool! Be careful with the BBS hatchery kits. When I bought one it didn't have an air-bubbler and only hatched like 40 shrimp lol. Babies are fun! GL!
Ya, This one seems to have everything except for the 2 letter bottle and the air pump. but it does have the air tubing and the hole in the bottom of the cap. Its a much cleaner and more stable hatchery then I could have made on my own.
Daddy is still going strong on day 8 now I think. I went out today and purchased a few small plants that kind of look like a sea urchin in that they are just long spines. I took them apart and I am now gluing them onto live rock.
I plan on trying to catch the male ONCE around the 20 day mark and if I am unable to I hope the male will spit the babies in the "sea Urchins" and then I will just siphon them out.
Daddy is still going strong on day 8 now I think. I went out today and purchased a few small plants that kind of look like a sea urchin in that they are just long spines. I took them apart and I am now gluing them onto live rock.
I plan on trying to catch the male ONCE around the 20 day mark and if I am unable to I hope the male will spit the babies in the "sea Urchins" and then I will just siphon them out.
rlpardue
Supporting Member
Cool, it sounds like you got the better model out there.
I think there's many ways of doing things but I'll add my experience with BBS in case somebody ever wants to jump up the learning curve a bit (or down it if I'm missing something)
So when I grow BBS my problem is always how to separate:
1-the newly hatched shrimp
2-the unhatched eggs (there will always be some)
3-the hatched eggs (shattered shells)
The unhatched eggs are almost neutrally bouyant, but they will float up to the surface over time (20 minutes or so for most). The empty shells will sink fairly rapidly. The BBS themselves will generally go towards any light source.
My first 'hatchery' I made was a 2-liter bottle with an air-hose line in the cap, which was of course at the bottom. The problem I ran into was that when I started draining the BBS, all the nasty hatched shells came out too. So my second model was just an upside down 2-liter bottle with the original "bottom" cut off, and I just capped the original "top". Then I use a 12-inch length of the hard/straight airline tubing (I forget what this is called), connected to my flexible airline tubing, connected to my air-pump. So the hard tubing keeps the output of the air at the bottom of the 2-liter (the cap).
THEN, to get the BBS out without the unhatched shells or the hatched shells, I let the bottle sit for 20 mins in the dark without air running; I leave a flashlight on, pointing at the end of the rigid airline tubing. The BBS will congregate around it while the hatched shells sink to the very bottom and the unhatched shells float. Then I siphon out the BBS.
I just try to keep the shells out so the babies don't choke (this actually happens, believe it or not) and so my water stays cleaner. I attached a picture.
I'm sure you know what you're doing, but it took me a long time to work this out so I figured I'd share anyway
I think there's many ways of doing things but I'll add my experience with BBS in case somebody ever wants to jump up the learning curve a bit (or down it if I'm missing something)
So when I grow BBS my problem is always how to separate:
1-the newly hatched shrimp
2-the unhatched eggs (there will always be some)
3-the hatched eggs (shattered shells)
The unhatched eggs are almost neutrally bouyant, but they will float up to the surface over time (20 minutes or so for most). The empty shells will sink fairly rapidly. The BBS themselves will generally go towards any light source.
My first 'hatchery' I made was a 2-liter bottle with an air-hose line in the cap, which was of course at the bottom. The problem I ran into was that when I started draining the BBS, all the nasty hatched shells came out too. So my second model was just an upside down 2-liter bottle with the original "bottom" cut off, and I just capped the original "top". Then I use a 12-inch length of the hard/straight airline tubing (I forget what this is called), connected to my flexible airline tubing, connected to my air-pump. So the hard tubing keeps the output of the air at the bottom of the 2-liter (the cap).
THEN, to get the BBS out without the unhatched shells or the hatched shells, I let the bottle sit for 20 mins in the dark without air running; I leave a flashlight on, pointing at the end of the rigid airline tubing. The BBS will congregate around it while the hatched shells sink to the very bottom and the unhatched shells float. Then I siphon out the BBS.
I just try to keep the shells out so the babies don't choke (this actually happens, believe it or not) and so my water stays cleaner. I attached a picture.
I'm sure you know what you're doing, but it took me a long time to work this out so I figured I'd share anyway
Attachments
Thanks for the info. I did learn something... Google search "San Francisco bay brine shrimp hatchery". That is the one that I got but for the most part it is just a cleaner version of what you have.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I thought both the unhatched and the hatched eggs floated to the top and I just planed to shine the light in the bottom and siphon the BBS through the airline, but after reading your post it sounds like I may need to get a rigid airline along with a normal airline to siphon the shrimp our of the middle of the 2 letter bottle.
Do you enrich your BBS and if so how many hours after you started the batch and with what?
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I thought both the unhatched and the hatched eggs floated to the top and I just planed to shine the light in the bottom and siphon the BBS through the airline, but after reading your post it sounds like I may need to get a rigid airline along with a normal airline to siphon the shrimp our of the middle of the 2 letter bottle.
Do you enrich your BBS and if so how many hours after you started the batch and with what?
Thanks for your help.
mike13oy
Guest
This is how i hatched my BBS with a DIY brine shrimp hatchery. I use a 2liter bottle and no light.
[video=youtube;Y8sNx9zTOnQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y8sNx9zTOnQ[/video]
[video=youtube;Y8sNx9zTOnQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y8sNx9zTOnQ[/video]
