Chasing numbers (1 Viewer)

[decimal]

So I came across some articles that referenced the proper way to implement 2-3 part dosing. This was on the instructions of the BRS TM Balling hybrid system but I found lots of corroborating convos and details from others as well.

Basically people start 2 or 3 part, either get an ics test and start from there or take their own measurements and adjust each component individually. Well you wind up chasing 3 different numbers (Ca, Alk and Mg)

The mistake here is that we are using the 3 part components to reach our desired parameters. In a constantly changing environment, this leaves people constantly trying to up keep water parameters.

Instead, test your alk and see how much is consumed over a set period of time. A few days, a week or whatever. Adjust and set your initial dose to hit and maintain the desired alk level. Set the other 2 elements for the same ml dose amount as the alk. Test all 3 to see where you are (or do ICP test). Make adjustments using pure powder form of Mg and Ca (do not use the 2-3 part components for adjustment) to hit desired parameters for those elements. The 2 or 3 part is now going to go to work maintaining and balancing out the elements and ionization of the water column. You can keep testing during that time but be prepared your parameters will be out of whack until the 3 part takes full effect. After about 3 or 4 weeks, your doses should be the same ml volume and your parameter nice and steady.

At least that’s the way I understood. some of the info was for AF but I saw the same info at BRS for the Hybrid balling system. The others (like ATI) usually say to use in equal parts but when I tried it never really worked out that way. This way seems much more clear and methodical.

 

[Erin]

So I came across some articles that referenced the proper way to implement 2-3 part dosing. This was on the instructions of the BRS TM Balling hybrid system but I found lots of corroborating convos and details from others as well.

Basically people start 2 or 3 part, either get an ics test and start from there or take their own measurements and adjust each component individually. Well you wind up chasing 3 different numbers (Ca, Alk and Mg)

The mistake here is that we are using the 3 part components to reach our desired parameters. In a constantly changing environment, this leaves people constantly trying to up keep water parameters.

Instead, test your alk and see how much is consumed over a set period of time. A few days, a week or whatever. Adjust and set your initial dose to hit and maintain the desired alk level. Set the other 2 elements for the same ml dose amount as the alk. Test all 3 to see where you are (or do ICP test). Make adjustments using pure powder form of Mg and Ca (do not use the 2-3 part components for adjustment) to hit desired parameters for those elements. The 2 or 3 part is now going to go to work maintaining and balancing out the elements and ionization of the water column. You can keep testing during that time but be prepared your parameters will be out of whack until the 3 part takes full effect. After about 3 or 4 weeks, your doses should be the same ml volume and your parameter nice and steady.

At least that’s the way I understood. some of the info was for AF but I saw the same info at BRS for the Hybrid balling system. The others (like ATI) usually say to use in equal parts but when I tried it never really worked out that way. This way seems much more clear and methodical.

Makes a lot of sense!

 

[soymilk]

I'm not sure this is the "proper" way as you mentioned. Could you post some vetted articles detailing this?

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php

Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium all have different separate demands dependent on the corals growing in the tank. Assuming the supplements are balanced and equal part 1:1:1 there are still other processes that can slowly bring the elements out of balance if left unchecked. Even the consumption of nitrate via macroalgae will produce bicarbonate ions.

 

[decimal]

Ok so here is the initial convo I stumbled across that included information and opinions from some pretty respectable people.

Tropic marin balling method

Currently switching 2 part dosing to tropic marin balling method on my 220 gallons mix reef tank. Slowly Turing it to Sps dominant tank as the frags grow. Anyone with balling method please share your success and if any additional supplements needed. Just did a 20% water change and took all...

www.reef2reef.com

I was then looking at BRS and how they supplement TM balling with brs calcium and alk powders. I guess they are tying “C” to the alk consumption but not calcium “A”.

Trace elements for your BRS Bulk 2-Part : The BRS / Tropic Marin Hybrid Balling

Learn how to mix and dose the BRS Bulk 2-Part / Tropic Marin Hybrid Balling Method

www.bulkreefsupply.com

This thread discusses Mg consumption and part “C” and includes comments from Lou Eckus

BRS Balling Hybrid - incorrect instructions from BRS?

@Lou Ekus @Hans-Werner I’m confused: why does the BRS hybrid Balling require 4 components in addition to the A&K elements...

www.reef2reef.com

I’m not saying everyone is doing it wrong and this is how you do it. I am simply pointing out some of what I found. What you do is up to you.

Edit: so I guess the main message is don’t use balling salts to make water chemistry adjustments, use “pure” forms for that and balling will keep everything balanced? This is different than my current understanding and I’m guessing a few others as well.

Edit Edit: there was more, but I’m sure we don’t need a detailed explanation from randy about how we should not try to combine our 2-3 part to dose 1 solution.

 

[soymilk]

all for reef time

All-For-Reef

Tropic Marin All-For-Reef is a revolutionary approach to dosing, combining calcium, alkalinity, and other trace elements into a single, easy to use solution. It's no longer necessary to maintain two, three, or four solutions, or a complicated reactor. All-For-Reef is a balanced source of calcium...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[decimal]

it’s that easy.

 

[BigRick]

I'm not sure this is the "proper" way as you mentioned. Could you post some vetted articles detailing this?

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php

Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium all have different separate demands dependent on the corals growing in the tank. Assuming the supplements are balanced and equal part 1:1:1 there are still other processes that can slowly bring the elements out of balance if left unchecked. Even the consumption of nitrate via macroalgae will produce bicarbonate ions.

Ratio.... GILTRON only accepts equal ....

 

[decimal]

I got this..

 

[BigRick]

I got this..

Ahhh Master !!!$$$$

 

[Stickboy97]

I dose AF 1 2 3 on one of my tanks and will on my new 150g until it becomes a pain & I hook up a CaRx. I'm very happy with their products.

CaRx on my main tank makes everything so simple. Hard to beat it, but you have to need it to actually get the benefits.

 

[soymilk]

I dose AF 1 2 3 on one of my tanks and will on my new 150g until it becomes a pain & I hook up a CaRx. I'm very happy with their products.

CaRx on my main tank makes everything so simple. Hard to beat it, but you have to need it to actually get the benefits.

Are you dosing equal amounts of AF 1,2,3?

 

[Stickboy97]

yep. I dose equal parts of all based on what the calculator says I need in ALK.

 

[Reefahholic]

I dose all my major elements individually because none of my tanks consume the 3 elements equally.

 

[decimal]

That is how I always did it and I think that’s how most people who dose do as well. It seems this is a misunderstanding of dosing 3 part. We use the dosing components to try and bring our water parameters to where we want them and wind up dosing three different volumes based on that. The 3 part systems however are designed to balance the water and each other. I know ATI elements and AF both say to dose equal doses. I tried this with ATI and the doses were never equal. It worked ok but never the way it was designed to since I never waited and began concocting my own way to get the parameters where I wanted them. It worked but never the way ATI had designed their product.

My original question really is that this ionic balancing and equal part dosing is not a specific feature design to one brand. So does this method transfer to all 3 part solutions or just specifically AF and ATI? I am approaching TM the same way and will try to make my adjustments with pure forms of of calcium and mag while keeping my dosage of A, B, C equal. Hopefully once I hit what I’m looking for, the 3 part will just maintain the parameters and begin to ionize and balance the water.

Whatever, I could be wrong and just waisting my time but it’s worth a shot.

Edit: sorry, ATI elements was 2 part.

 

[Reefahholic]

Most systems will not consume the 3 major elements perfectly. They will almost always consume more ALK, then Cal, and then Mag. So trying to balance is difficult. Simply give the tank and corals exactly what is needed. If you have a large clam it will suck down the calcium. If you have a Acro heavy system with Coraline algae it will consume more Alk.

 

[Stickboy97]

I do an ICP every quarter or so & test Cal & Mag only occasionally. If I see either is off, I'll dose a little less of those as I do it all by hand. But for the most part I dose all 3 same and it seems to stay pretty balanced.

 

[decimal]

3 part working the way it’s supposed to. It’s not to adjust water parameters. It’s to ionize, maintain and balance everything. At least that’s the understanding I took away from all that.

Edit: I think it’s safe to say that no system uses all three parts equally. Maybe “balance” is not the right term. “Buffer” might be better suited?

 

[soymilk]

thats contradictory. If its not to maintain and you're still required to manually dose then how is that balancing everything?

 

[decimal]

By providing a buffer to sudden changes and imbalances

Take it up with AF or whatever. It is my own personal observation that the way I have used 2 or 3 part in the past (and the way I have seen it be used by most) is inconsistent with the manufacturer’s directions.

 

[decimal]

Again, my thought process doesn’t really involve the effectiveness of dosing. I am assuming that the manufacturers of dosing products know and understand their products well enough and we all know they work to greater or lesser effectiveness.

My interest and curiosity here is in regards to methodology. Most 3 part mixes are not all that different from one another. They all claim to provide the same ionization and balancing of tank water chemistry. Some (but not all) say to peg your dosing to alk and let it be the guide for the other 2. Initially things are off, but then they balance out. When they do, dosage of all three will be the same and everything comes together to sing kuhmbaya. Requiring only occasional slight tweaks to adjust for increases in consumption or whatever. So, pegging your calcium and Mag to the alk level is not a product design though. That is a method to an end and I suspect that all similar 3 part solutions will react and organize the same way. That is really the only thing I was curious about and that’s is what I am going to try out with TM.