Dialing In Calcium Reactor (1 Viewer)

[emixa]

I just installed Geo 618 reactor on 07/05. I made sure that my parms were where I wanted it.

07/05:
Cal: 440
Alk:10
Mag: 1300

my set up consists of the following:

Geo 618 chamber with dual check valves (one that came with the unit and the other supplied with the regulator). The circulating pump has been swapped from an Ehiem to a Siccie .05 (more powerful). Reef Octopus pH controller, Aquarium Plant Regulator Carbon Doser.

Geo instructions state to set you effluent to drip at 50ml / minute and set your pH controller to 6.3. Your BPM should be at 30/minute or on the AP carbon doser; .05 / second. Did that.

Tested my water this morning and found a big variation:

Cal: 420
Alk: 7.5

So after a couple of days, REAL low Alk. So from this I have a few questions (not again....dang boy hush).

So gauge settings. There are (2) of them. One should tell you the PSI from the tank contents (0-2000 psi) and the other is the pressure of gas going through the solenoid valve (0-15 psi).

Tank Contents: mine is showing about 150-175, I thought that mine was full when I bought it but I guess I have to re-fill it..curious
Gas Flow: I read somewhere that this should be set at 12 psi? can someone confirm this?

Next, getting my Alk up. So I read that in order to raise your alk, you can do this one of (2) ways; (1) increase the effluent flow and leave the BPM the same (ex: 50 to 75 or 90 ml per minute and 30 BPM) or (2) leave the effluent flow and increase the BPM (ex: 50ml/minute and 60 BPM).

next thing is that all changes should be done in slow increments. also I checked the effluent alk and it read 15 or 7.5dkh. what should it read?

What I did today, I made sure that my gauges on the regulator read 12 instead of 3 psi. I have the knob to allow or set the bubbles per second to 1.5. the effluent rate has been changed to be 60ml per minute.

also, if I want to increase my alk back to 10, I am having to do that by using external chemicals (for instance B-ionic 2 part). can you raise your parameters while in the process of dialing in?

As for refilling a cylinder, is there a right way/wrong of taking the cylinder off-line?

Thanks ahead of time for all your help and read patience.

 

[d2mini]

Hi Elton,
Don't use the reactor to CHANGE your alk. You'll just keep chasing it up and down. You want to get the reactor to a point where it's holding your alk steady. Then manually dose your alk higher (or turn the reactor off if you need to lower it). Then when your alk is where you want it, the reactor should be able to keep it steady. I think you understand this, just making sure.

I keep my gas flow at about 6-7 psi and I'm using the Aquarium Plants Carbon Doser which makes it REALLY easy to keep a consistent bubble count.
For me, and my reactor, I found I need a pretty steady flow of around 150 ml/min and my carbon doser is set to about 4.5 seconds per bubble.
50 ml is a good starting point but you might find it hard to keep it at a steady 50ml over time. It may slow down. 60-70 might be more reliable.

Also, what media are you using?
At first I was using ARM coarse and it took a really low ph, around 6.3 to dissolve it and I was having trouble keeping up with my alk.
I switched to the Two Little Fishes REBORN media and now i keep my ph at 6.5-6 no problem.

Keep a log of your changes.
Give at least 12 hours after changing anything before you test. 24hrs if possible.

 

[emixa]

Hey Dennis,


thanks for the feedback. yeah i was aware that the reactor will not be the source to truly increase or decrease your alk and cal at major level changes. i know that adjusting a couple of things might make a slight difference but not a major one in this case.

so if i want to bring my params back to my desired, can i manually dose to my liking while in the process of dialing in my reator? or do you have to just leave the reactor alone and bring up those values?

i ramped up my PSI pressure last night and it was fine but noticed that my cylinder pressure was almost to zero this morning...so i did some investigating and found out that this genius (and using the word loosely) had the cylinder off....oh yeah. we are making bone-head progress. so the gas was not truly flowing. so i slowly opened the cylinder valve and guess what, we have pressure now...mental note......doo-mas. i can see what my parms are and can change the flow from 50 to 80 or so. but then that puts it to about a stream?

right now i am using the ARM stuff so not sure if i will keep or get rid of. keep for now.

i always log my info testing. so what should your effluent output read as for dkh? this morning my alk was set at 8. are you testing alk or pH?

also, i read somewhere that your regulator should always be on and to try and not have it coming on an off: T or F?

also, just to confirm, i am testing both ALK and CAL and making sure that those levels are not changing.

 

[d2mini]

Leave the reactor as-is and dose manually until your params are where they should be (or a tad higher if your reactor is causing them to drop).

Yes, you will end up with a solid stream or close to it. Mine is definitely solid. You just add more co2 to keep the ph low enough.
My tank was sucking up 300ml of alk mix every day when i was dosing so I couldn't get a high enough concentration in my effluent to stay at a drip and keep my tank alk up.

Your effluent output alk should be much higher than your tank alk.
Like in the teens or 20's.
You'll have to dilute your sample in half with RO water and then multiply x2 to get the right number when testing.

My regulator runs 24/7.

Don't worry about calcium right now, it will go up and down with alk. Just test alk.

 

[tinman]

Elton,

I also have the Geo 618. When the Co2 is full, you should get the high pressure reading around 800psi. I do have a second chamber and it does make your CA/X more efficient by using less CO2 thus not lowering your ph too much. There is a media for sale in marsh http://www.marsh-reef.org/used-equipment-selling-trading-wts-wtt-/43641-fs-media-reactors.html.

 

[RR-MAN]

Elton,

I also have the Geo 618. When the Co2 is full, you should get the high pressure reading around 800psi. I do have a second chamber and it does make your CA/X more efficient by using less CO2 thus not lowering your ph too much. There is a media for sale in marsh http://www.marsh-reef.org/used-equipment-selling-trading-wts-wtt-/43641-fs-media-reactors.html.

The logic makes a lot of sense but personally didn't see much change in PH by adding the 2nd chamber.

 

[emixa]

Dennis,

So when you say that your regulator runs 24/7, do you have it plugged into a pH controller or to direct source outlet. mine is plugged into the pH controller which only turns on the regulator when its in the "range" set.

so, you are really doing about 2 weeks worth of testing. once you have your parameters set, you have to test to see what your tank is consuming (a week for good average). then you have to test your reactor for keeping your alk set or stable (a week for good average)?

when you say diluting your effluent sample with half RO, just to be clear, i pull 20ml of effluent output and add 20ml of RO water, mix and test that with my ALK test and get a number of (only random number) 10 and then multiply that x 2 for 20. the 20 value should be my effluent value? is there a general number as to what my effluent should be? example: your Eff should be twice your tank param (Eff: 20 then your tank alk should be 10?)

then, hopefully last question. say you find out that your tank consumes .05dkh a day. how do you figure out the proper dosage your reator should put out, or is that part of the adjusting (by trial and error) of the ml/minute or bubble per second theory?


again, thanks for all the feed back and patience. hopefulyl from this thread, it may save some questions from other potential reactor enthusiast who might be afraid to ask those dumb questions.

 

[emixa]

Elton,

I also have the Geo 618. When the Co2 is full, you should get the high pressure reading around 800psi. I do have a second chamber and it does make your CA/X more efficient by using less CO2 thus not lowering your ph too much. There is a media for sale in marsh http://www.marsh-reef.org/used-equipment-selling-trading-wts-wtt-/43641-fs-media-reactors.html.

Tin,

you mentioned that before and i thought about it but i was advise by GEO that i really shouldnt need it unless i was seriously housing a green house reef in my tank. i dont have that problem yet but pushing for it.

 

[emixa]

Elton,

There is a media for sale in marsh http://www.marsh-reef.org/used-equipment-selling-trading-wts-wtt-/43641-fs-media-reactors.html.

so on this extra media reactor, would you just add a output hose from the main reactor to this reactor filled with more calcium media and then the output hose (effluent output) from the secondary chamber to the skimmer section of my sump?

 

[d2mini]

Dennis,

So when you say that your regulator runs 24/7, do you have it plugged into a pH controller or to direct source outlet. mine is plugged into the pH controller which only turns on the regulator when its in the "range" set.

so, you are really doing about 2 weeks worth of testing. once you have your parameters set, you have to test to see what your tank is consuming (a week for good average). then you have to test your reactor for keeping your alk set or stable (a week for good average)?

when you say diluting your effluent sample with half RO, just to be clear, i pull 20ml of effluent output and add 20ml of RO water, mix and test that with my ALK test and get a number of (only random number) 10 and then multiply that x 2 for 20. the 20 value should be my effluent value? is there a general number as to what my effluent should be? example: your Eff should be twice your tank param (Eff: 20 then your tank alk should be 10?)

then, hopefully last question. say you find out that your tank consumes .05dkh a day. how do you figure out the proper dosage your reator should put out, or is that part of the adjusting (by trial and error) of the ml/minute or bubble per second theory?


again, thanks for all the feed back and patience. hopefulyl from this thread, it may save some questions from other potential reactor enthusiast who might be afraid to ask those dumb questions.

I'm not using a ph controller, just a ph probe/monitor in my reactor. So my regulator is literally dosing c02 24/7... or every 4 seconds.

Every reactor and needle valve is different so I just picked some settings to start at based on instructions i found on the web and then adjusted from there, testing once or twice a day.
I had a lot of problems with the media and my original regulator. I easily spent a good month and a few bottles of hanna reagent trying to figure it out.

For testing, the hanna tube holds 10ml so i put in 5 ml of effluent and 5ml of RO/DI water.

As to the second chamber... Jeff at LifeReef says the same as RR-MAN and Geo. Jeff doesn't build second chambers... he says they don't do anything. He'll build it if you really want it but says it won't magically increase your ph. I've never tried it though so I can't say either way.

 

[emixa]

hmmm, this explains alot of the whole letting the regulator run all the time jazz. (check)

diluting question answered (check).
what about the numbers? should your tank alk be one value and your effluent be related somehow?

figuring in out my range; trial and error.....(check)

 

[Andy]

Neither will an air stone. I tried 4 air stones in a filter sock with the effluent dripping in the same sock, and nothing. No rise in PH.

 

[Andy]

I think the reason for the regulator/CO2 running continuously is:

If you get the drip of effluent correct along with CO2 bubble, then when the CO2 stops bubbling, such as when some turn off CO2 at night, then the pressure in the reactor drops because of no CO2, then the drip rate drops.

I fought this for a while. I had the PH meter turning off CO2 when it got to 6.3, then my effluent drip rate dropped.

I adjusted the drip rate back up, then the CO2 came back on & increased the pressure within the reactor & the drip rate went crazy.

I finally took off that solenioid & just found a bubble rate that kept internal PH at 6.3.

Does that make sense?

 

[d2mini]

what about the numbers? should your tank alk be one value and your effluent be related somehow?

Not that I know of. Because even though we both might keep our tanks at 8 dkh, my tank/corals may be sucking up alk at twice the rate of your tank.

found a bubble {and flow} rate that kept internal PH at 6.3.

This.
And if your alk continues to drop, increase both flow and bubbles so your ph stays the same.

 

[emixa]

yeah. this makes alot of sense which would alswer alot of questions....it also helps if you have the cylinder open....<-----meathead mistake.

 

[emixa]

GOOD Info folks. i really appreciate all the insight and help. i would give you frags but i have to buy them from you in hope that if one something happens, i can repay you back.

 

[tinman]

The logic makes a lot of sense but personally didn't see much change in PH by adding the 2nd chamber.

It does for me.

 

[Andy]

Did you get the reactor dialed in??

Comments on the unit??

 

[emixa]

hey Andy,

funny you asked because i was going to post on it.

so i did about a weeks testing on the water and found that my tank was using .5dkh a day. that was a week pass.

then when i recalibrated my pH probe in the reactor, that helped a little. something happened as i think that the unit may have received some water damage.

i installed the plant aquarium regulator and started off with 90 ml/minute, with the bubble set at 3 and noticed the issue with the gas levels. found out later that the tank i had was almost empty, so much for the word of the guy who sold it to me. took the bottle back and the exchanged it for an aluminum bottle that was full (win-win situation). plugged that up and the PSI reading was a little under 1000psi; cool.

so with the effluent at 70ml/minute, the secondary gauge at 6, and the bubble dispense at 6, i noticed that my reactor pH fell to 5.2 or in that area. so i did some adjusting and i tried different combinations each day with no big results so i un-plugged the regulator and te pH rose to 6.5ish. then i tested my alk and calcium and saw that my alk had gone from 10 to 12dkh in a matter of a couple of days so i dropped the effluent to around 30ml/minute and noticed that at the moment (yesterdays reading)
Alk: 11.5 dkh
Cal: 390 (manually dosing calcium to raise it to 450ish)
Mag: 1250 (manually dosing mag to raise it to 1300-1350)
Reator pH: 6.28-6.3 range and holding

so, what now? do i even turn the regulator on? i was going to get a reading of the effluent out put tonight. it seems to me that the gas drops the reactor from 6.3 to 5.2-5.4 which is not a good thing. the last time it did that, i had the gauge set from 6 psi to 3 psi with a bubble release of 8. the bubble was so small i could barely see it but that slowed down the rate of pH drop. i reduced that amount of effluent as i read that it increase the alk reading, which it did.

any words of widsdom?

 

[Andy]

I am missing something....

If your tank water PH is around 8, then what is goes into the reactor should also be at 8. With no CO2 added, the effluent should be 8.