HELP! Tank crash? (1 Viewer)

[yenniffer]

Hello, sorry for this long post but i need help figuring out what is going on with my tank. Tank is a Red Sea 750. About a month ago I had GHA bloom and I did a dose of reeflux which took care of the problem no more GHA. I then started to notice some cyano red and did a dose of chemiclean (which i have used in the past without problems. I went away in vac for a week, when i came back was when i notice at that time was cyano and did the chemiclean treatment. Then i started getting this brown stringy stuff all over the sand bed (dinos?) When i came back 2 days later i noticed that the wrasse that i had was gone, i thought maybe it was hiding because it tends to do that but i have not seen it so I’m am assuming its gone. My anenomes (2) started getting stringy, one i took out this morning it was gone, the other is hanging on not looking so good. Elk horn I had completely bleached. My torches and hammers are looking very stringy. I spoke up this morning to a dead cleaner shrimp ( he was fine last night).

I just tested my parameters and they are:
Salinity 1.025
alk: 8.11 dKH (apex trident)
Ca: 309 ppm (apex trident)
Mag: 1204 ppm (apex trident)
pH: 8.08 (apex)
Temp: 80.4 (apex)
PO4: 0 (salifert kit)
NO3: 0 (salifert kit)
NO2: 0 (API kit)
Ammonia 0 (api kit)

I have never dosed this tank with any supplements as I’ve never had issues with corals, they seemed happy. My p04 is 0 and nitrates 0 which i thought it was supposed to be? But I’m reading other threads and they shouldn’t be right at 0?

I don’t know what else to do..so i need your expert help and again thank you for those that took the time to read this long post, i hope it all makes sense.

 

[BigRick]

Yup sounds likr your tank never got its nutrients built up and starved the corals which in turn brought on the dinos..... identify what kind of dinoflagellates you have to treat effectively. UV in display is best option. The dino are toxic is what kills fish and inverts that eat it.

 

[Bullitt519]

What's the age of the tank? If this is a mature tank.

The first thing I would probably do is a 20-50% water change. I would also probably clean my skimmer and make sure it is fully functional, change filter socks daily and rinse/reuse or switch to polyfill for a couple of days, also wouldn't hurt to run carbon. Get all the death out of the tank and start the cycle again.

 

[frankc]

Did you do at least a 30% water change after each treatment? I think both products say to do that. I would not expect an overdose of those chemicals to kill a fish or shrimp, but they certainly could harm corals and anemones. The only time I tried Chemiclean, I lost an Acro I really liked, so I never tried it again.

As for the stuff at the bottom, if you have access to a microscope, it's pretty easy to tell if it's dinos. They look like gold spheres with one or two "hairs" they use to move around. Having 0 phosphates and nitrates seems to contribute to having dinos. I also lost several LPS corals when mine dropped to 0, and the ones that hadn't completely died recovered when I started dosing nitrate and phosphate. However, I am having trouble with LPS corals now and have no idea why, so I can't claim to be too much of an expert.

Good luck - I hope you will be able to solve your issues.

 

[TX_Punisher]

What do you use for source/make up water?

what lighting?

it Sounds like a possible nutrient imbalance.

cal and mag could also be raised to 375-400 and 1300+ slowly.

raise those nitrates a hair and possibly some po4. I’ve gotten two cyano patches when my nutrients were too low. I try to shoot for 5-10 in no3 and .05-.1 po4.

 

[yenniffer]

What do you use for source/make up water?

what lighting?

it Sounds like a possible nutrient imbalance.

cal and mag could also be raised to 375-400 and 1300+ slowly.

raise those nitrates a hair and possibly some po4. I’ve gotten two cyano patches when my nutrients were too low. I try to shoot for 5-10 in no3 and .05-.1 po4.

I use RODI water, and have radions running.

 

[yenniffer]

Did you do at least a 30% water change after each treatment? I think both products say to do that. I would not expect an overdose of those chemicals to kill a fish or shrimp, but they certainly could harm corals and anemones. The only time I tried Chemiclean, I lost an Acro I really liked, so I never tried it again.

As for the stuff at the bottom, if you have access to a microscope, it's pretty easy to tell if it's dinos. They look like gold spheres with one or two "hairs" they use to move around. Having 0 phosphates and nitrates seems to contribute to having dinos. I also lost several LPS corals when mine dropped to 0, and the ones that hadn't completely died recovered when I started dosing nitrate and phosphate. However, I am having trouble with LPS corals now and have no idea why, so I can't claim to be too much of an expert.

Good luck - I hope you will be able to solve your issues.

Yes, i actually did a 40% water change yesterday and changed the filter socks, added carbon. Unfortunately i don’t have access to a microscope. Thank you

 

[TX_Punisher]

I use RODI water, and have radions running.

What % do you run the reds at? Go read the post about dosing nitrates. That will help you out

 

[yenniffer]

What % do you run the reds at? Go read the post about dosing nitrates. That will help you out

The setup that I have it’s running from 37-45

 

[Cody]

Yes, i actually did a 40% water change yesterday and changed the filter socks, added carbon. Unfortunately i don’t have access to a microscope. Thank you

What side of town are you on?

The Dino is 100% caused by your nutrients being so low. My tanks thrive at NO3 5-10ppm and PO4 .03-.06ppm. I have some nitrate dosing solution that you can have if you want to start dosing it asap. I’m in the spring/woodlands area.

 

[BigRick]

Water changes will fuel the dinos... only run carbon no gfo.... you want to dirty the tank to out compete the dinos if you don't have a UV, which would still be a temp fix.

 

[BigRick]

What's the age of the tank? If this is a mature tank.

The first thing I would probably do is a 20-50% water change. I would also probably clean my skimmer and make sure it is fully functional, change filter socks daily and rinse/reuse or switch to polyfill for a couple of days, also wouldn't hurt to run carbon. Get all the death out of the tank and start the cycle again.

Her tanks not totally dead cause it was never totally alive.... with dinoflagellates you DO NOT want to do water changes as it will fuel them. She needs to get bacteria built back up that will naturally eat the dinos. Even amphipods eats dinos. If your gonna do a water change then the only recommended method is the RIP method. Basically you pull all water out and replace with new fresh saltwater. This is mainly done on pico tanks, not big displays. UV tied into display not sump is still optimum solution along with getting your nitrates and phosphates up.

 

[Bullitt519]

Her tanks not totally dead cause it was never totally alive.... with dinoflagellates you DO NOT want to do water changes as it will fuel them. She needs to get bacteria built back up that will naturally eat the dinos. Even amphipods eats dinos. If your gonna do a water change then the only recommended method is the RIP method. Basically you pull all water out and replace with new fresh saltwater. This is mainly done on pico tanks, not big displays. UV tied into display not sump is still optimum solution along with getting your nitrates and phosphates up.

I've done up to 50% in the past with a blackout and never had any ill effects. I never saw where it was posted the age of the tank or the size. If the tank was mature I would at least do a water change to remove the die-off and chemicals she added to the tank so it can re-stabilize.

 

[yenniffer]

What side of town are you on?

The Dino is 100% caused by your nutrients being so low. My tanks thrive at NO3 5-10ppm and PO4 .03-.06ppm. I have some nitrate dosing solution that you can have if you want to start dosing it asap. I’m in the spring/woodlands area.

thanks Cody, i live close to spring and work in the woodlands. I order the Neophos and neonitro it should get here tomorrow.

 

[yenniffer]

Her tanks not totally dead cause it was never totally alive.... with dinoflagellates you DO NOT want to do water changes as it will fuel them. She needs to get bacteria built back up that will naturally eat the dinos. Even amphipods eats dinos. If your gonna do a water change then the only recommended method is the RIP method. Basically you pull all water out and replace with new fresh saltwater. This is mainly done on pico tanks, not big displays. UV tied into display not sump is still optimum solution along with getting your nitrates and phosphates u

Water changes will fuel the dinos... only run carbon no gfo.... you want to dirty the tank to out compete the dinos if you don't have a UV, which would still be a temp fix.

i only have one of those green killing machine uv but i don’t know if that would even do anything to it. I had it in a 75G that i previously had.

 

[Reefahholic]

I’d personally hold off on the water change if you did 40%.

Next, I’d get Cal and Mag within target range.

After that, you need to bump the N&P to detectable levels. N to at least 2-3 ppm and P to at least 0.03 ppm. You can supplement two common sources of Nitrate. I prefer Sodium Nitrate (NaNO3), but Cody can help you out with some Potassium Nitrate (KNO3). For Phosphates I recommend dosing Spirulina Powder (very gentle & clean way to increase PO4) or heavier feeding to achieve the detectable level I mentioned above. You can even target Phosphate as low as 0.01-0.02 ppm and be ok, but 0.03 - 0.05 ppm will help you a little better. The main goal is to get some numbers on the board. Trust me, you’re Anemones will thank you later. Just be careful, because if you go to fast they’ll inflate and walk on you. SLOW is key. You’ll need a Hanna Phosphorus ULR or Hanna Phosphate ULR. Nyos is good for low range NO3. Only bring up NO3 by 1-2 ppm in 24 hrs. Phosphate only by 0.01-0.02 ppm in 24 hrs. You can push it further, but I wouldn’t especially since the tank is out of balance.

The Cyano you’re seeing is likely due from zero Nitrate. Diatom’s and Dino’s thrive at Zero N&P, so getting those numbers detectable will take some wind out of their sails.

Next, I’d turn off your Reds or bring them down to 10%. At this point if you’re loosing coral and the tank is shocked anyway you may want to reduce the overall intensity or duration until you get a handle on the Algae and Dino’s.

Manually removing what you can, and “after” you get the nutrients up- dosing some bacteria would be beneficial. Just keep in mind that most bacteria products will drop N&P so you’ll need to increase the dosing or feeding as needed. They can also drop pH so I’d start with 1/4 dose, then 1/2, and finally a full dose while monitoring nutrients closely.

Good luck with your tank! Keep us updated.

 

[yenniffer]

What side of town are you on?

The Dino is 100% caused by your nutrients being so low. My tanks thrive at NO3 5-10ppm and PO4 .03-.06ppm. I have some nitrate dosing solution that you can have if you want to start dosing it asap. I’m in the spring/woodlands area.

I’d personally hold off on the water change if you did 40%.

Next, I’d get Cal and Mag within target range.

After that, you need to bump the N&P to detectable levels. N to at least 2-3 ppm and P to at least 0.03 ppm. You can supplement two common sources of Nitrate. I prefer Sodium Nitrate (NaNO3), but Cody can help you out with some Potassium Nitrate (KNO3). For Phosphates I recommend dosing Spirulina Powder (very gentle & clean way to increase PO4) or heavier feeding to achieve the detectable level I mentioned above. You can even target Phosphate as low as 0.01-0.02 ppm and be ok, but 0.03 - 0.05 ppm will help you a little better. The main goal is to get some numbers on the board. Trust me, you’re Anemones will thank you later. Just be careful, because if you go to fast they’ll inflate and walk on you. SLOW is key. You’ll need a Hanna Phosphorus ULR or Hanna Phosphate ULR. Nyos is good for low range NO3. Only bring up NO3 by 1-2 ppm in 24 hrs. Phosphate only by 0.01-0.02 ppm in 24 hrs. You can push it further, but I wouldn’t especially since the tank is out of balance.

The Cyano you’re seeing is likely due from zero Nitrate. Diatom’s and Dino’s thrive at Zero N&P, so getting those numbers detectable will take some wind out of their sails.

Next, I’d turn off your Reds or bring them down to 10%. At this point if you’re loosing coral and the tank is shocked anyway you may want to reduce the overall intensity or duration until you get a handle on the Algae and Dino’s.

Manually removing what you can, and “after” you get the nutrients up- dosing some bacteria would be beneficial. Just keep in mind that most bacteria products will drop N&P so you’ll need to increase the dosing or feeding as needed. They can also drop pH so I’d start with 1/4 dose, then 1/2, and finally a full dose while monitoring nutrients closely.

Good luck with your tank! Keep us updated.

This is very informative, I very much appreciate it. I have turned down the reds on my lights. What do you recommend for raising alk/ca/mag? I have never dosed this tank before.

 

[BigRick]

Feed 4x day, not pellets but frozen

 

[Huang21921]

Just recently dealt with Dino in my 34 Red Sea all in one tank. I turned off my lights for 4 days and raised the temperature to 82, and fed more to the tank. 2 weeks in now, so far so good, no signs of Dino and corals are growing.

 

[Reefahholic]

This is very informative, I very much appreciate it. I have turned down the reds on my lights. What do you recommend for raising alk/ca/mag? I have never dosed this tank before.

I recommend using/dosing BRS 2-PART for first time dosing. If you know how to dose, I'd typically recommend ESV. BRS elements are very easy to mix, they're cheap, there's instructional videos, and also dosing calculators to help you pinpoint your exact dose needed. Plus they have everything needed to mix like funnels, mixing jugs, measuring cups, etc. You can hand dose weekly for now and later on automate it with a dosing pump.

Example....you test Alk and it's 7.2 and you need to raise it to 8.5....just plug in your test result in the calculator and then add your target value and it will populate your Alk dose needed.

Same with Calcium....put in your tested valve....say it came out to 300 and your target is 420.....plug those numbers into the calcium calculator and it will tell you to dose X amount of calcium to achieve 420....lets say 30ml's or 8oz....etc.

Here is a link for everything you'll need to get started:

2-Part Pharma Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package

Start Replenishing Calcium and Alkalinity in your Reef Tank! Keep your corals growing with the BRS 2-Part Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package. The kit includes everything to make one gallon of calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium and to start daily dosing, it even includes mixing jugs, dispensing...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Here is a link to all their calculators to help you get started:

Aquarium and Reef Calculators - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Let me know if you need more help.