ICP-analysis testing is a joke (1 Viewer)

[webster1234]

Is it just me or has anybody else realized that the way ICP reports their test results now is a total crap show? It's been about a year since I sent in for an analysis and I just got my test results back a couple weeks ago. Some results now are reported in parts per billion (ppb) and some in parts per million (ppm). In the past, they were all the same unit.

It was also helpful to compare my results to the ICP "suggested results", or to Fiji, Hawaii, etc. I could see how much I was off, over or under the suggested concentration. But now, with iodine for instance, it shows my results in ppb, and the suggested results in ppm??? And its way worse than moving a decimal. With iodine, it shows suggested for iodine at 50 ppm! Actual should be closer to .08 ppm, not 50. I called them and spoke to the person that does the testing and pointed this out to him. This was two weeks ago. He acted like this is the first he has heard of an issue. He agreed that what I was describing could be "confusing" and that he would "look into it," but that was about it. Several weeks later, nothing has changed and I still can't make any sense of my results, and I have a degree in chemistry.

He mentioned something about a new mass spec instrument they were using that was supposed to be more accurate than the old ICP but the results are completely useless! I have tried to call back but haven't had luck reaching anybody. I can't see ICP-analysis as anything useful until they get this mess corrected.

 

[Reefahholic]

Is it just me or has anybody else realized that the way ICP reports their test results now is a total crap show? It's been about a year since I sent in for an analysis and I just got my test results back a couple weeks ago. Some results now are reported in parts per billion (ppb) and some in parts per million (ppm). In the past, they were all the same unit.

It was also helpful to compare my results to the ICP "suggested results", or to Fiji, Hawaii, etc. I could see how much I was off, over or under the suggested concentration. But now, with iodine for instance, it shows my results in ppb, and the suggested results in ppm??? And its way worse than moving a decimal. With iodine, it shows suggested for iodine at 50 ppm! Actual should be closer to .08 ppm, not 50. I called them and spoke to the person that does the testing and pointed this out to him. This was two weeks ago. He acted like this is the first he has heard of an issue. He agreed that what I was describing could be "confusing" and that he would "look into it," but that was about it. Several weeks later, nothing has changed and I still can't make any sense of my results, and I have a degree in chemistry.

He mentioned something about a new mass spec instrument they were using that was supposed to be more accurate than the old ICP but the results are completely useless! I have tried to call back but haven't had luck reaching anybody. I can't see ICP-analysis as anything useful until they get this mess corrected.

Not only that…but they results can’t be trusted. There’s a reason why “everybody” got huge deal’s on their test kits.

 

[Reefahholic]

I like to think of it as:

1 ug/g = 1 ppm

1 mg/l = 1 ppm

1 ug/l = 1 ppb

1 ng/l = 1 ppt

Or…

1 ppm = 1,000 ppb = 1,000,000 ppt
0.001 ppm = 1ppb = 1,000 ppt
0.000001 ppm = 0.001 ppb = 1 ppt

But @soymilk says I don’t know anything about my dosing pump or dosing so don’t take my word for it.

 

[TX_Punisher]

They’re cheap for a reason. Use the other manufacturer’s test.

 

[soymilk]

 

[soymilk]

To get back on point, I've noticed a few people complaining about ICP analysis.

Some people mentioned there's no way they can churn a profit and clean the machine enough not to cross contaiminate samples.

I'd be interested to send two of the same samples in under different accounts to see how close the results are.

 

[webster1234]

Here's just two examples of what I am talking about. Look at Phosphorus. Mine translates to .03 PO4, but 70 ppm for suggested?
Or iodine. Mine is displayed in ppb and the suggested in ppm. And see all the dates for my previous tests? Those are in ppm so they don't even register on the bar graph. Totally useless!

Now the third picture, Magnesium, that is what it is supposed to look like.

 

[soymilk]

Lol the results are just taken at the numerical values

I think this is probably just the programmer not understanding

 

[webster1234]

Lol the results are just taken at the numerical values

I think this is probably just the programmer not understanding

Well I think we all get that its just a numerical value. Ppb or ppm doesn't matter to me. What does matter is how it compares to the test I sent in last quarter; and how my levels are trending over time. If something seemed off with my tank, I could simply click on each element and see if anything changed from the last time I sent one in.

If the old tests are measured in ppm and the new ones in ppb, I can't quickly spot abnormalities. ie look at the nice graph on the Mg chart and then how useless the first two are.

Secondly, yea I see that Chlorine is 19932 ppm, and Cobalt at 3.34 ppb. Do you know what it "should" be and is that high or low? If I had a magnet breaking down or a heater rusted and leaching into my tank, I'd like to be able to spot the difference from my last water change.

Yes it is definitely a programming issue but you'd think somebody could spot that and make changes to correct it.

 

[Reefahholic]

To get back on point, I've noticed a few people complaining about ICP analysis.

Some people mentioned there's no way they can churn a profit and clean the machine enough not to cross contaiminate samples.

I'd be interested to send two of the same samples in under different accounts to see how close the results are.

A few people? Lol

Those tests cannot be trusted. I understand they’re cheap, clubs got a really good deal, and the turnaround is fast, but if you knew what I knew about them you would not waste your time. You gotta know when to hold em and when to fold em. In this case it’s a fold em quick. But again…what do I know.

 

[Reefahholic]

Well I think we all get that its just a numerical value. Ppb or ppm doesn't matter to me. What does matter is how it compares to the test I sent in last quarter; and how my levels are trending over time. If something seemed off with my tank, I could simply click on each element and see if anything changed from the last time I sent one in.

If the old tests are measured in ppm and the new ones in ppb, I can't quickly spot abnormalities. ie look at the nice graph on the Mg chart and then how useless the first two are.

Secondly, yea I see that Chlorine is 19932 ppm, and Cobalt at 3.34 ppb. Do you know what it "should" be and is that high or low? If I had a magnet breaking down or a heater rusted and leaching into my tank, I'd like to be able to spot the difference from my last water change.

Yes it is definitely a programming issue but you'd think somebody could spot that and make changes to correct it.

ATI bro…you can see every element trending.

Don’t let these clowns crash your tank. Do you normally dose 50 ppm iodine at one time? Lol

How do they know how much to recommend for you when not all iodine products are created equally? My gosh these people are gonna crash tanks.

 

[frankc]

ATI bro…you can see every element trending.

Don’t let these clowns crash your tank. Do you normally dose 50 ppm iodine at one time? Lol

How do they know how much to recommend for you when not all iodine products are created equally? My gosh these people are gonna crash tanks.

I agree that what they've done is crap, but let's not make stuff up to bash them more. The suggested level is not what you're supposed to dose at one time, it is the suggested level where that element should be. It is up to you to figure out how to get there. But I agree that getting your iodine to 50ppm, no matter how slowly, would be a disaster.

 

[webster1234]

Normal levels for iodine are .08 ppm, not 50. Another point I didn't bother to make.

 

[Reefahholic]

I agree that what they've done is crap, but let's not make stuff up to bash them more. The suggested level is not what you're supposed to dose at one time, it is the suggested level where that element should be. It is up to you to figure out how to get there. But I agree that getting your iodine to 50ppm, no matter how slowly, would be a disaster.

Yep, STN or RTN for sure. Webster…what does 50 ppm iodine equate to in your system volume? Just gotta ask.

 

[Reefahholic]

Normal levels for iodine are .08 ppm, not 50. Another point I didn't bother to make.

Where they recommending 50 ppm to get you to 0.08 mg/l? Or did it over shoot for your system. That’s what I really want to know.

Plus even if they did…that is not a good way to dose iodine. It will almost every time lead to issues later.

 

[Stickboy97]

I've used both ICP_A & Triton and don't like the ICP-A,

 

[Reefahholic]

I've used both ICP_A & Triton and don't like the ICP-A,

I’d much perfer Triton and will still use them for fast turnaround, but they don’t test Fluoride or RO water so that sucks. Definitely can’t use them bimonthly. Fluoride is a super important element and most tanks are very depleted.

 

[gregg]

the club has triton test available at a reduced price.... Ive been meaning to send in the same sample to both companies and see how they compare. but I like the idea of having 2 different people send in the same sample and see if they match.

 

[Reefahholic]

the club has triton test available at a reduced price.... Ive been meaning to send in the same sample to both companies and see how they compare. but I like the idea of having 2 different people send in the same sample and see if they match.

Go for Triton or ATI!

 

[Reefahholic]

Just to be clear I would say the same thing about ATI or Triton if something was off. They all have some flaws, but ICP Analysis just happens to be far worse than the rest. I see a lot of ICP tests weekly (2.3K members) and quite frequently see the results from all of them as some people never follow the rules or they have bought the others and are transitioning over and using up their last tests. Lol. When you see this kind of volume on a weekly basis you start to notice a lot of things. Just to be fair with ATI I’ve seen Lanthanum trending high on several results for no reason at all (previously undetectable w/ no changes) and also salinity coming back at 33 ppt despite regular calibration to their equipment and current results at 35-36 ppt @ 78 degrees. It sometimes happens and even at the hospital I can run blood on a very expensive machine that is strictly calibrated daily and get different results back to back with 30 seconds of each other. It doesn’t vary by much but it will always vary some. Triton isn’t perfect either, but ATI and Triton are far more reliable. The problem with Triton is they don’t test RO or Fluoride so they cannot be consistently used are relied upon. Fluoride is just too important and knowing what’s in your source water is extremely valuable and has helped us to correct a lot of issues as so many issues stem directly from your source water itself!