Icp water tests (1 Viewer)

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I remember a while ago @Cody tried to compare the quality and accuracy of a reange of ICP tests. That proved to be… difficult and was sidetracked however the general consensus seemed to be that ATI was the test used by a lot of folks with pretty successful tanks.

I just came across this and thought I would share.

Some pretty decent info, method and comparisons.

The Reef Builders’ Big ICP Test Review, by Sanjay Joshi | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Initially introduced to the hobby market by Triton, ICP tests have been around for several years now and have become a staple in the hobby. The allure of these tests has been the relatively cheap…

reefbuilders.com

 

[xmjxflipx]

I use ati and oceamo both have been good with fast response times. Not sure if one is better than the other.

 

[Reefahholic]

OCEAMO is better than ATI now, because they have ICP-MS. Before I switched over, I had pretty good results with ATI-OES. The only problem is that they (Any OES) are unable to detect elements below 1-2 ug/L. All the other elements are fine. OES just does not have the sensitivity to detect the ultra trace metals. When they come up, they’re already overdose. From what I’ve seen in my own tank these elements are extremely important for numerous biochemical pathways and molecular processes where trace metals are necessary for fundamental cell function and cellular responses to physiological stress. I had a massive 0.61 ppm phosphate swing from an auto-feeder incident and nothing blinked. I was shocked.

These metals are not hard to dial in on ICP-MS, because typical detection limits for most elements is 0.05 ug/L or better. Most have target range of about 0.3 ug/L to around 0.8 ug/L. So the sensitively is definitely there. I’ve been able to slowly dial them in each month and noticed a marked increase in color and growth even with just a 0.2-0.3 ug/L increase. My tank was doing fine with ATI until it started to take off pretty well, and then the corals outgrew their resources especially since I don’t do any water changes. So dialing these was a must. OES can’t accurately detect Fe, Mn, Co, Cr, Cu, & Se. Zn, Ni, & V are on the borderline so I don’t trust those either. These 9 above I leave to ICP-MS, but I honestly don’t do ICP-OES at all anymore. If you want a good analysis, go with OCEAMO. It’s not only about the analysis, but also the environment of the room, and the understanding and expertise of the person or people performing the analyses.





ICP-OES


ICP-MS

 

[decimal]

For what it’s worth, I was more interested in the Fauna Marin ICP tests since they seem to cover a lot of ground (just like Oceamo) but the test they evaluated in the article was a lesser test hence the reduced cost. The one that is comparable to Oceamo is the same cost. I found the FM test also more difficult to buy so I guess I will stick with the Oceamo ICP tests.

 

[Reefahholic]

For what it’s worth, I was more interested in the Fauna Marin ICP tests since they seem to cover a lot of ground (just like Oceamo) but the test they evaluated in the article was a lesser test hence the reduced cost. The one that is comparable to Oceamo is the same cost. I found the FM test also more difficult to buy so I guess I will stick with the Oceamo ICP tests.

They are trustworthy, but I think Claude has OES machines.

 

[mitchell77546]

It’s bunch of horse sh!t. Don’t believe the hype. This isn’t rocket science calm down with the crazy testing. You can test for all the bullsh!t in the world it doesn’t mean it’s essential to coral growth. I have had good luck with triton and if you can control the nutrients I believe you can be plenty successful…

 

[Reefahholic]

It’s bunch of horse sh!t. Don’t believe the hype. This isn’t rocket science calm down with the crazy testing. You can test for all the bullsh!t in the world it doesn’t mean it’s essential to coral growth. I have had good luck with triton and if you can control the nutrients I believe you can be plenty successful…

That’s pretty interesting to say the least. Turns out those metallic trace elements are extremely important. This has been known. Dr. Farley and Dr. Balling both agree as well as the newest papers out right now that you cannot see unless you pay for the subscriptions. Only the older stuff gets released first, that’s how it works. You’re a little behind.

 

[Reefahholic]

I have had good luck with triton

Please link up your last ICP so we can observe the values for Fe, Mn, Co, Cr, Cu, V, Zn, Ni, Se.

 

[PSXerholic]

Dude, look at this beautiful Bottle logo !!!
This is a local Houston business ;-)

 

[BigRick]

Dude, look at this beautiful Bottle logo !!!
This is a local Houston business ;-)

The best.... Shine on

 

[BigRick]

It’s bunch of horse sh!t. Don’t believe the hype. This isn’t rocket science calm down with the crazy testing. You can test for all the bullsh!t in the world it doesn’t mean it’s essential to coral growth. I have had good luck with triton and if you can control the nutrients I believe you can be plenty successful…

Everyday we keep learning more and more to success. Take Sanjay for example.. total tank crash... things change and we're still learning why

 

[decimal]

There is little room to argue that the increase in detailed testing provides the ability to fine tune water chemistry. Thats basically a balling or additive system but with much greater resolution. Balling has been around for a long time and this current evolution has been embraced by a few companies including Fauna, ATI and Moonshine reefers. Regardless of the company, The results are undeniable.

Give it a few more years and we will arrive at a point where we can just dose all 4 one solution that adjusts the water to the finely tuned parameters we are currently chasing. You know, anyone who wants a reef tank, will be able to pick up a turnkey system that will run successfully.

All that being said, for now, good husbandry is the keystone of a healthy tank imho. That still requires some knowledge, discipline, and a little luck.

 

[Reefahholic]

Give it a few more years and we will arrive at a point where we can just dose all 4 one solution that adjusts the water to the finely tuned parameters we are currently chasing.

I agree with everything, but there are some issues putting multiple elements in one bottle/s. Here’s why:

When you add multiple elements to 1 bottle you loose the ability to control the elements. If 1 element is going north…you can’t just stop that 1 element without stopping the entire bottle. If 1 element is being heavily consumed, you can’t just increase that one element without increasing everything else. It’s a real problem. There’s no precision or control.

 

[Reefahholic]

Going back to OES vs MS…

This is a recent ICP-OES from yesterday. The guy has all acros and is local here in Houston. He’s blasting the corals pretty hard with light. I’ve been over to buy frags, and he’s super nice guy. I don’t think he fully understands what these traces can do, and how they can protect the coral from light, but also increase the growth. You really have no clue where these elements are below:



For an example I’ll show you a Miyagi tort I picked up from him in low nutrients. Then I’ll show you how the same coral as a frag in my system, but in high PO4 of 0.35-0.4 which should according to most slow down the growth and reduce the color, but you can look at the growth structure of the coral and the color and tell that’s not the case.

Bottom LT was in His tank. Top LT was after being in my tank a month or two. Bottom RT was after I made several frags:



Like I mentioned earlier in this thread. Both of our Reef Chemists agree that these elements are very important:

 

[mitchell77546]

You can say what you want and you can sell it all day. I do just fine on moonshiner’s with triton. It’s whole lot excessive cost with lirttle return. You reef how you like. I don’t even bother with the dailies anymore they don’t and never did anything for my tank.

 

[Reefahholic]

I don’t get paid. I just like things that work, and tell people about what I believe in.

The pros and everybody that is in deep know, so I’ll leave it at that. I don’t force anybody to do anything. I just list the information and people can do whatever they want with it. If you don’t think the elements work, I’m a little confused why you’re still on the method.

 

[Reefahholic]

I don’t even bother with the dailies anymore they don’t and never did anything for my tank.

The analysis that your using isn’t sensitive enough to see those values unless they’re overdosed. If you like, we can compare our ICP results here for everybody to see and I’ll prove my point.

 

[mitchell77546]

The analysis that your using isn’t sensitive enough to see those values unless they’re overdosed. If you like, we can compare our ICP results here for everybody to see and I’ll prove my point.

Why do I need to do that? I’ll show my coral you show yours. You tell me how icp is making my coral grow less and I’ll tell you it’s alive and well

 

[Reefahholic]

Why do I need to do that? I’ll show my coral you show yours. You tell me how icp is making my coral grow less and I’ll tell you it’s alive and well

You made the ridiculous claim. Remember, it’s a bunch of Horse Sh!t. We can compare growth and color too. My tank is only 18 months old, and I bet it’s not too far behind yours. I’m fixing to do an update on my system soon.



Post your Bonsai….let’s compare health and color from my 18 month system with yours.



Here’s the before:

 

[decimal]

eh.. there are a thousand ways of keeping a sucessful reef tank. What you are trying to say is that your way is the best way... and that IS a bunch of horsesh!t. Im not even doubting your fancy copied internet graphic of a basic biolocial process or even the great youtube videos you found online. Before jumping in and trying to prove that everyone is wrong because they dont agree with your method is... idk smh... a little misguided and a definite warning flag as to how serious i should be taking you to begin with. That's just my opinion of course.