Is PAR bleaching a thing? (1 Viewer)

[Reefahholic]

That doesn't look like a LED over his tank.

Nope. No LED, but haven’t talked to him in a while. I cut our group text as it was distracting me during the start of the Delta Surge and I was stressed to the max. Me and Ali didn’t text too much, but the other guys got off on the “STOCKS craze” and were blowing up our phones all day everyday.

I don’t think he’s running any LED’s now though. Maybe one if somebody gave it to him. He basically runs T5’s and MH’s and doses the tanks and feeds with fish poop. Not sure how he does so well. I think his gift of being able to leave the tank alone works well for him.

 

[webster1234]

Nope. No LED, but haven’t talked to him in a while. I cut our group text as it was distracting me during the start of the Delta Surge and I was stressed to the max. Me and Ali didn’t text too much, but the other guys got off on the “STOCKS craze” and were blowing up our phones all day everyday.

I don’t think he’s running any LED’s now though. Maybe one if somebody gave it to him. He basically runs T5’s and MH’s and doses the tanks and feeds with fish poop. Not sure how he does so well. I think his gift of being able to leave the tank alone works well for him.

I was getting you to make my initial point for me which you did beautifully. Thanks.

 

[BigRick]

I know a guy that literally uses a sump, return pump, skimmer, light, wave makers, heater, and fish…and has the biggest corals ever. He swears that’s all you need. Same guy that owns that tiny elegance coral.

That's a lot of par on that tank.

 

[Reefahholic]

That's a lot of par on that tank.

Yeah, but the quality of light is key!

 

[Reefahholic]

I was getting you to make my initial point for me which you did beautifully. Thanks.

There’s no doubt that T5’s and Metal Halides can still run with any LED on the market.

I’m still in the boat that corals in our tanks don’t need crazy par.

 

[webster1234]

There’s no doubt that T5’s and Metal Halides can still run with any LED on the market.

I’m still in the boat that corals in our tanks don’t need crazy par.

You are making the argument that LED's are the new standard and anything else just hopes to meet that standard. I am arguing the exact opposite. That LEDs are substandard to T5 and MH.

 

[BigRick]

Yeah, but the quality of light is key!

Hence my 7 hydra 26s on a 3x3

 

[Reefahholic]

You are making the argument that LED's are the new standard and anything else just hopes to meet that standard. I am arguing the exact opposite. That LEDs are substandard to T5 and MH.

I don’t think LED’s are the new standard. I think LED’s are likely the most popular at this point. I don’t think they blow away all the competition.

I ran T5’s forever and only got away from them because the weight, bulb replacements, energy consumption, and the spread and data maps from the new Radions was = to T5’s. So at that point “for me” it was time to switch over and try them.

I have not said they are the standard.

I still think there’s a place for MH if you can tolerate the heat, energy consumption, and color. They definitely don’t make corals pop like LED’s, but they grow corals like crazy and so do T5’s.

If somebody gave me a T5 fixture I’d run it on a different tank. If I bought a T5 fixture It would be a regular Sunpower and maybe the dimmable because I enjoy the early hours with coffee watching the tank ramp up to peak photo period.

 

[webster1234]

Your reason for switching to Radions is fine. And no doubt they offer a color pop that isn't attainable with T5. And MH we can forget about due to the heat issue.

Just the way you worded your statement "There’s no doubt that T5’s and Metal Halides can still run with any LED on the market" made it sound like LED's were the solution and T5 and MH can only try and keep up. It's just semantics. No big deal.

My initial point was that there are just too many ways to adjust a LED. And the human eye tends to play with them until they make the corals look "pretty" to us. But that isn't necessarily the best photo environment for coral health. Go to any fish store that doesn't move a lot of corals but runs these blue and hyperviolet spectrum's to make the corals look eye catching. Those corals don't survive long term in the store, most likely because of the color spectrum they are using to sell them.

Then people bring them home and adjust their LED's to try and recreate that same pop that made them buy the coral in the first place. Then they wonder why their coral doesn't survive.

 

[Reefahholic]

I prefer a whiter spectrum myself, but Jason Fox seems to run all blue and we know what his tanks look like. I can’t say that either white or blue works better, but if I were to guess…I’d think it’s important to run a more full spectrum to mimic sun.

Although we know a lot of that white seems to get filtered out the deeper you go down in the ocean, but who knows if that’s really true. I haven’t seen any studies or tests done.

I’m the last person that will attack T5’s because I’ve had more success with them than anything else. I’ll keep you updated on these Radion G5’s compared to my PowerModule if I set this tank up. With all the shortages I’m not sure when I’m gonna do it. Might need to just jump in anyway.

 

[Reefahholic]

I hope these G5’s are as good as my last fixture. To be honest the only 3 reasons why I bought them were because 1st they were cheaper than buying another T5 fixture. Plus the spread is finally where I want it and they are so light weight and should allow me to easily adjust them and create more room to get in the tank. The electric bill is a plus too, because when I had that PowerModule maxed out it definitely was sucking some juice. This time I’m going to run lower PAR. Sure some due well in 400-500 PAR, but I think the majority of corals do better under 350.

 

[alstang1]

For those interested, first off thanks for the input.
I read up on some stuff to try to get a little better understanding. This is what I decided. Ordered the powder concentrate. It will be here later in the week.

In the mean time I came across neo nitro and neo phosphate. Did a little digging on recommended doses and divided by 2.
Nitrate target is 10 so I dosed the equivalent to 5.
Neo phosphate max recommended increase in a given treatment is .04 above tank level so I dosed .02 above current reading of .02-.03 the three times I tested back to back. I will follow up with the same logic every 24 hours until the powder formula comes in.
Again thanks guys. It is all about saving the coral at the end of the day.

 

[Seaworthy Aquatics]

For those interested, first off thanks for the input.
I read up on some stuff to try to get a little better understanding. This is what I decided. Ordered the powder concentrate. It will be here later in the week.

In the mean time I came across neo nitro and neo phosphate. Did a little digging on recommended doses and divided by 2.
Nitrate target is 10 so I dosed the equivalent to 5.
Neo phosphate max recommended increase in a given treatment is .04 above tank level so I dosed .02 above current reading of .02-.03 the three times I tested back to back. I will follow up with the same logic every 24 hours until the powder formula comes in.
Again thanks guys. It is all about saving the coral at the end of the day.

I'd be careful with dosing that much at once. I wouldn't do more than one or two ppm of nitrate per day in a tank with sps. Neophos says not to go over .04, not don't dose more than .04 at one time. Believe it says dose to hit .02 and not to go over .04 total. Bit of a big nutrient spike and some sensitive stuff might not handle it well. Need to take everything slowly, especially with dosing. I always start way below what they say to dose and work up.

 

[Cody]

I'd be careful with dosing that much at once. I wouldn't do more than one or two ppm of nitrate per day in a tank with sps. Neophos says not to go over .04, not don't dose more than .04 at one time. Believe it says dose to hit .02 and not to go over .04 total. Bit of a big nutrient spike and some sensitive stuff might not handle it well. Need to take everything slowly, especially with dosing. I always start way below what they say to dose and work up.

I played with dosing nitrates a year or two ago and wanted to figure out the limits of what you could dose before your corals were offended. 5ppm per day is the limit in my tank. Anything equal or shy of that didn’t effect the corals at all.

 

[Seaworthy Aquatics]

I played with dosing nitrates a year or two ago and wanted to figure out the limits of what you could dose before your corals were offended. 5ppm per day is the limit in my tank. Anything equal or shy of that didn’t effect the corals at all.

Nice! Wish I could up it that fast lol. Mine certainly don't like anything over about 1.5, had a pink birdsnest brown out last time I dosed more than 2, so I stick with about 1 when I need it.

 

[Reefahholic]

I dose to raise NaNO3 by 1ppm per dose per 24hrs.

The key is to go very slow, TEST, document, and understand the effect the dose had. There is a lag effect, so if you dose it’s good to wait till the next day at the same time to test and then dose again if needed.

 

[Reefahholic]

BTW…Neonitro and Neophos plus FOH’s N&P are all the same that are created from products like Loud Wolf.

I’d be willing to bet it’s even cheaper product/poor quality like stump remover, but they will sell it to you quickly.

Email them and ask them what it’s made from.

……“It’s proprietary!” Blah Blah

 

[Reefahholic]

FYI…like Cody my tank would tolerate slightly less. It could handle about 3ppm max dose.

After that…Acro’s will start to brown out. For me the 1ppm in 24 hrs is perfect.

Here’s my basic recipe:


Reefahholic’s Nitrate/ NaNO3 solution:



1 Gallon = 3785.4mL

1/2 Gallon = 1892.7mL



16.9 FL OZ = 499.7mL



(I typically mix 500-850mL at a time)



13 TBSP NaNO3 in 500mL RO/DI will raise NO3 by 1ppm for 75/G.



6.5 TBSP NaNO3 in 250mL RO/DI will raise NO3 by 1ppm for 75/G.



3.25 TBSP NaNO3 in 125mL RO/DI

will raise NO3 by 1ppm for 75/G.



1.62 TBSP NaNO3 in 62.5mL RO/DI will raise NO3 by 1ppm for 75/G.



4.86 tsp NaNO3 in 62.5mL RO/DI will raise NO3 by 1ppm for 75/G.



*Rounded off*

5 level tsp NaNO3 in 65mL RODI will raise NO3 by 1ppm for 75/G.

65/5 = 13

So for every 1 level tsp NaNO3 & 13mL RO/DI will raise NO3 by about 1ppm for 75/G.

 

[New HTXReef]

Following. Great information. Coming out of a similar situation with 0 Nitrates. Went the more natural route and added fish and number of feedings. Starting to get nitrates now. And SPS are starting to color up better now.

 

[Reefahholic]

Following. Great information. Coming out of a similar situation with 0 Nitrates. Went the more natural route and added fish and number of feedings. Starting to get nitrates now. And SPS are starting to color up better now.

Natural is great.

For me…it was always easier to dose “Exactly” what I needed to really dial in the system. Dosing seems to quickly give the corals what they need. I kept PO4 ready at all times too so I could correct any depletion. Although, PO4 is much easier to keep in the system. Siporax and other filtration seems to knock the NO3 down a lot more, but that was always my goal. Keep the numbers very low and precisely dose back my target levels.

One thing I’ve learned over the years is learning how to find balance and avoiding the chase for the most intense colors. I focus more on coral health now and sometimes that requires more nutrients/nutrition to keep it closer to the safe zone.

A lot of new reefers don’t realize that if the numbers are continuously falling too low…don’t be scared to start removing filtration. Or turn the skimmer off for a bit.

Compensate with more fish or feed more quality food. Once you find that balance the tank is much easier to manage.

Question why you’re running GFO or Carbon, etc. Too many people running things they don’t need at all.