• Welcome back Guest!

    MARSH is a private reefing group. Comments and suggestions are encouraged, but please keep them positive and constructive. Negative threads, posts, or attacks will be removed from view and reviewed by the staff. Continually disruptive, argumentative, or flagrant rule breakers may be suspended or banned.

LED Lighting - acronyms, alphabetisms and confusion (1 Viewer)

Users who are viewing this thread

ModAquatics

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
191
Reaction score
15
Location
Katy, TX
I have seen many posts asking questions about LEDs, PAR, etc, and instead of answering different post I though I would start one to create more confusion. :D

I am not an expert by any means, but I am really into lighting. The information below is based on my personal knowledge.

Here ya go...

The following spectrum's may differ between LED manufacturers. The terminology can apply to different types of lighting but I will concentrate on LED's for now.

LED's come in color and whites (generally speaking).

The colors concentrate on specific wavelength ranges and the LED's are rated by those wavelengths measured in nanometers. (nm=nanometer)
Ultra-violet (UV) 340-420nm Can't see it at the low end, the upper end is violet. It is dangerous at the intensities that we run and should be avoided.
Violet (V) - 410-440nm Burple :)
Royal Blue (RB) - 440-460nm Very Blue
Blue (B) - 460-490nm Blue
Cyan (C) - 490-520nm Not really used much in aquaria
Green (G) - 520-550nm Good for making green corals pop. Contrary to popular belief, chlorophyll's don't use green very much. Most plants reflect it which is why they appear green. Ideally, if you only give plants or corals the light that they require, they would appear black because they would not reflect any light.
Amber (A) - 570-610nm Not really used much.
Red (R) - 610-645nm Good for making red pop but not used much
Deep Red (DR)- 650-670 Utilized by chlorophyll to produce color. I am experimenting with this and have seen significant color improvement. Especially when combined with Violet LED's. (Thanks SteveB :D ). Deep Red LED's are very visually powerful and should be used as such.
Anything higher than 670nm gets into infra-red (Heat)


White light covers a broader area of the visible spectrum. Therefore white LED's are typically rated by CRI (color rendition index) or Kelvin (color temperature). Because the white light can cover such a large range we typically call a white LED a general type of white based on where it falls in the Kelvin color temperature range (2000-25,000K for aquarium purposes although it is actually broader). The three white ranges are;
Warm white (WW) - Generally the light has more of the upper warmer part of the spectrum or lower part of the Kelvin color temperature. Typically LED's ranging from 2,500-3,500k fall into this category.
Neutral White (NW) - Middle of the Kelvin range about 3,500-4,500K.
Cool White (CW) - the upper and bluer part of the color temperature 4,500-10,000K

The visible spectrum ranges from approx. 350nm to 750nm. PAR or Photosynthetically Active Radiation is Photon (particles of light) radiation that can be used by plants and animals to produce energy. PAR is light energy between 400-700nm. PAR meters measure an average of light that falls within this range. Because it measures an average, PAR meters cannot accurately measure Color LED's since they are only narrow parts of the PAR range. Even White LED's cannot be accurately measured with a PAR meter because how they are constructed. All white LED's are either Royal Blue or Deep Red LED's with a phosphor coating (that is why the white LED's look yellow when inactive). The phosphor glows white but much of the underlying photon energy comes through. If someone wants to try a cool experiment, hold a white LED under a Royal Blue and watch the white LED light up.
I am not saying that PAR meters are not useful. On the contrary, if a PAR meter says that the LED is putting 100 PAR (It is really call PPFD or Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density but we will just call it 100 PAR until I buy a DeLorean), It is underestimating the true photosynthetic energy hitting the sandbed. This is because different corals and plants utilize different parts of the PAR spectrum differently. Color LED's (Royal Blue specifically) can provide more (here it comes, a new word) PUR or Photosynthetically Usable Radiation. PAR is a general photosynthetic range whereas PUR is the specific parts of PAR that are usable by specific organisms.

Myths......
PAR is PAR - False. There are lights out there that can put out 1000 PAR at the sandbed but some corals would struggle to grow because the light may not have enough PUR for that specific coral. Deepwater corals don't do well under Deep Red light. This is because Deep Red is filtered out after several meters of seawater. Shallow water coral need deep red to thrive better.
The higher the PAR the better - False. There has not been any peer reviewed scientific evidence that I have seen that shows where PAR values higher than 300 have any growth benefit.
There is a specific LED color combination needed - False. White LED's cover a wide spectrum. But some corals grow better under specific color combinations whereas other corals grow better under other combinations. There is none that cover all efficiently. Ask anyone that has run AI's for awhile and they will testify that RB and CW LED's grow a wide range of coral well enough, and other colors are not always necessary.
The best LED efficiency is achieved by running them at higher amperage - False. I see folks doing this all the time and I don't really understand why. Even the LED manufacturers state that the higher the amperage the lower the lifespan and the higher the wasted energy (converted to heat) I suppose people think that the higher amperage produces more light intensity. Although this is true, intensity can be achieved by utilizing optics. The big problem that I have with high amperage is that the LED's produce much more heat per watt and less light per watt.


Again, this information is based on my experience. If anyone has any further info, updates or corrections, let me know and I will change this post as necessary. Please feel free to respond, ask questions, state your experience, etc.
 

Scott

Guest
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
2,032
Reaction score
0
Location
Webster
I didn't... But conversely could find no flaw in anything he said. Lots of good info in there.
 

steveb

Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Board Member
Build Thread Contributor
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
11,953
Reaction score
2,856
Location
Spring
Very nice synopsis Robert! I'm glad you included the info on PUR. Seems most of the time when I mention it I get blank stares.
 

ange062

Guest
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
429
Reaction score
17
Nice summary!! Another myth that I hear all the time that really bugs me is when people say that LED's transmit NO heat to your tank water.

This is just downright false!!! LED's produce more lumens per watt then a MH, i.e. they are more efficient. But a 50w LED is still 50w of power to heat your tank.
 

TexanReef

Guest
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
627
Reaction score
0
Location
290 at 6
True that, but the more of the 50W is going into the visible spectrum, not infrared.

The radiant heat from LEDs is much less than that from other more traditional lighting. Heating the tank from this radiant heating is what most people are referring to, I suspect.
 

ange062

Guest
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
429
Reaction score
17
I'm not arguing that it is less heat, that is absolutely true. But it is NOT zero heat and I hear so many people talk about it like this.

Stick your hand under an LED fixture and you still feel heat, though it's nowhere near the sunburn feeling you get from sticking your hand under a 400w MH :)
 

lesd

Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
658
Reaction score
29
Location
Cypress - near Barker Cypress/290
Yep, the infrared is what kills you with halides. Just hold your hand under the light about 6" away and compare the warmth from a halide vs. equivalent LEDs.

Because LEDs are narrow spectrum (strength and weakness), they don't give off infrared. The heat the LEDs do give off due to power dissipation is transferred to the heatsink, not directly to the water.

Edit: Posted this at the same time as ange062s last post so it is repetitive. It is true that some heat is transmitted to the tank from the LEDs light output, just a very small amount compared with halides.
 

flexrac

Guest
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
5,222
Reaction score
14
Location
Remington Ranch
excellent thread robert!
This is why i stick to RB and white, but it should be noted that some folks mix other colors in to get a more appealing look to their tanks, plus make it easier to take photos of it. good example, with my setup i have 2 royal blues to one 10k white.
this gives my tank something close to 20k if not 20k lighting. i like it, however photographing it is a pain.something closer to 10k is much more easier to photograph, plus your tank will have that prestine white look. and with a clean water column, you fish and corals will look like they are floating in the air, however your corals may not-pop!

I also heard that par meters are about 10 percent off when reading leds, do you think it's more?
 
OP
OP
ModAquatics

ModAquatics

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
191
Reaction score
15
Location
Katy, TX
flexrac said:
I also heard that par meters are about 10 percent off when reading leds, do you think it's more?

I would say that it is off way more with Color LED's. White LED's are at least 10% off as well but not as much as color. I still think that PAR meters are useful because yo would at least know where you are at a minimum.
 

Tangs

Guest
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
426
Location
Sarnia, Ontario
I am not the technical type. I presently have 4 ho t5 bulbs and am considering switching to led lighting. 24 inch dimable bluesand white and blue on seperate drivers is what I am considering. Is this enough power for my crocea clams and what is the life span of this led lighting system. Will I have to replace the unit in say 7 years just the led bulbs? Many thanks Jim
 

Tangs

Guest
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
426
Location
Sarnia, Ontario
Ok I asked marine depot if they could help me out then. They told me the following: LED diodes usually have a lamp life of about 50,000 hours. Using good quality ones over an aquarium for 10 hours a day. So 5 to 7 years bulb life. The output will decrease drasticly and will want to cover the entire aquarium when using led lighting. In my case I am considering getting the 24 inch unit and using it over my corals. Still use my ho unit to just light up the rest of the tank using old bulbs. have a nice day Jim
 
OP
OP
ModAquatics

ModAquatics

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
191
Reaction score
15
Location
Katy, TX
Actually, the 50,000 hour mark is when the LEDs begin to degrade (for good LEDs such as Cree, Philips, Osram, etc.). Therefore at 10 hours a day the Leds should last 10 years or more. As far as determining how many LEDs there are many factors such as, tank dimensions, type of corals (LPS, SPS) and light control (on-off,Sunrise sunset, etc.).
Crocea clams have very high light requirements. But if you are currently growing them with 4 24" T5's then you should be able to grow them with 24-36 high power Leds running 500-700ma full on 10 hours a day or 36-48 Leds running a standard sunrise sunset cycle.
 

Tangs

Guest
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
426
Location
Sarnia, Ontario
Ok thanks for the info Mod Aqatics. I was also recently told that all led's are basicly the same. It is the unit with the amount of reflectors etc. that makes the difference. I don't want to learn another lesson the hard way. So I am carefully considering this option. Jim
 
Top