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Local Store with 'proper' QT (1 Viewer)

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saltyanimals

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Not sure where this post best belongs, so I'll start here.

There used to be a couple online stores that sell QTed livestock. I don't mean just a little copper, but following proper QT procedures and thus tailored to folks that either don't have the time or space to do a proper QT. I know the topic of 'proper' QT will come up as this is often subjective, but I'm looking for more mature process that will reduce the risk with just dropping animals into your home tank. Yes this comes probably at a premium, but anyone know local places that fit this?

Thanks!
 

Cody

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What do you mean when you say proper? Are you referring to some of the large import companies on the west coast and how they do it? Not a single store in town has the facilities to do something like that. Also, to do what I would be considered proper would take a long time, and I just don't see the stores sitting on the inventory that long. In addition, if they sit on the inventory for a long time, they will ultimately have to absorb pretty much all of the die off that could happen for reasons outside of their influence. The price of fish would drastically jump if they performed the same quarantine that a hobbiests might perform on their own. My understanding was that it's pretty much assumed that the process is put on to the customer so as to allow a higher turn over (more varieties that they can get in and out) and to help keep the costs from getting too high.
 

Clownfish Chris

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What do you mean when you say proper? Are you referring to some of the large import companies on the west coast and how they do it? Not a single store in town has the facilities to do something like that. Also, to do what I would be considered proper would take a long time, and I just don't see the stores sitting on the inventory that long. In addition, if they sit on the inventory for a long time, they will ultimately have to absorb pretty much all of the die off that could happen for reasons outside of their influence. The price of fish would drastically jump if they performed the same quarantine that a hobbiests might perform on their own. My understanding was that it's pretty much assumed that the process is put on to the customer so as to allow a higher turn over (more varieties that they can get in and out) and to help keep the costs from getting too high.
This! However, it is rumored that that Aquarium Place will eventually offer a QT service. I’m sure it will cost!
 

Luman01

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Fishland off of hwy 6 he runs copper and hypo in all of his saltwater tanks. Expect the reef tanks. I always buy from them most of my fish are from there. I bought my mimc tang there for 12$ it was a bit beat up but now she looks fat and happy. And there prices are so awesome. They are a lot cheaper fish wise then most other lfs around Houston!
 

Mandarin417

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At least 3 other stores that I know of run copper and hyposalinity in their fish only systems too. Setting up a QT tank is not costly. Last year I lost 6 very nice established fish by introducing one that I did not run through QT. Now I am doing 4 weeks of chloroquine phosphate prophylactically to treat Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum. I follow that by two rounds of Prazipro for parasites. I am following the protocol from Humblefish (Dr. Fish) on R2R and below are links he provided me when I added a scribbled angel and an asfur angel a few weeks ago:

The best ich/velvet treatment for angels is CP: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

Angels tolerate that much better than copper: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

I also recommend deworming (using Prazipro) either before or after: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/prazipro.247598/

Using both medications is a solid QT protocol for large angels. I'm assuming you've already ready my "How to QT" article: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-to-quarantine.232/
 

FarmerTy

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I would take a guess that almost all LFSs run low levels of copper in their tanks, at least in Austin they do. The problem is the fishes usually don't stay in the copper for the full duration of treatment or the concentration is not high enough to eradicate the pests. It does however keep the fish alive and looking good.

So you end up going home to a perfect fish and the disease has been masked at the store via the copper. Enough to hide the symptoms, not enough to treat them. You put them in your tank and in a week, you have a dead tank. Always QT, this isn't the 90s anymore, marine velvet is rampant!

That being said, i thought there was a guy on here that would QT fish. A vendor. Antonio?
 
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Mandarin417

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So this is the full guide I use now. Some folks will begin with a FW dip but i think that is pretty stressful. My current setup is a 30 gallon long, with a reliable heater, a couple of cheap powerheads, a Seachem Tidal 55 hang on filter with just filterfloss in it, PVC pipe for the fish to hide, a seachem ammonia alert badge, and since I had an extra one laying around - an ATO. I siphon out up to a gallon of water a day and replace that gallon of water with replacement seawater. For the first month, the replacement seawater has the same concentration of CP as the original tank had. I then run a few days of carbon between the CP and Prazi treatments in the hang on filter. I was using a small skimmer in the QT tank but it really didn't do that much so I no longer use one.

Here is my blueprint for treatment in detail based on what Humblefish provided me:

TREATING WITH CP:


Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.


How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. Nowadays CP requires a prescription to purchase legitimately, making it more difficult to obtain. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet (or an MD) to write a prescription which can then be filled by a compounding pharmacy.


CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top-off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:
Prophylactic treatment is 40 mg per gallon.
For active infections (visible symptoms present), I typically will up the dosage to 60mg/gal. However, I cannot say if this is anymore effective than the "standard" 40mg/gal dose.
For Uronema marinum and really bad infestations, you can dose up to 80mg/gal. However, I have noticed appetite suppression and lethargy at this concentration. :oops:
As you can see, there is quite a bit of wiggle room between the minimum & maximum dosage. Practically speaking, 40mg/gal will treat all external protozoa issues… its just that the higher dosages may get the job done a little faster. Treatment lasts 30 consecutive days, and no carbon, UV, etc. may be used during this time (although it can be used later when you wish to remove the medication from the water.) A little quirk about CP is that light will degrade it; however it appears this mainly applies to the powder itself, so store your CP in a cool, dark place. Once in water, you may use an aquarium light with CP - however fish with velvet are light sensitive so I would only use ambient lighting (ex. lamp across the room) if treating for that. CP is NOT reef safe. In addition to killing your corals, it is a very strong algaecide.


Pros - Gentle on most fish (see DO NOT USE list below), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.


Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), powder is heat & light sensitive - so store in a cool, dark place. Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.


** Based upon anecdotal experience (mine and others), DO NOT USE CP on Anthias, Wrasses or Hippo Tangs. For the time being, chelated copper (exs. Coppersafe, Copper Power) is the best alternative to use on these species. **


** Finally, a place to buy Chloroquine: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-place-to-buy-chloroquine.252610/ **


** Special thanks to @svogun for providing this link, which can be used to find aquatic vets in your area for sourcing CP: Aquavets Online portal for finding aquatic veterinarians and diagnostic labs **




TREATING WITH PRAZIPRO – before or after CP


Prazipro (praziquantel): Treats flukes, black ich, and some internal parasites (worms).


How To Treat - In either a quarantine or display tank, dose Prazipro at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. DO NOT OVERDOSE (especially with wrasses), try not to mix with other medications (for various reasons), and provide additional gas exchange while treating with Prazi. Wait about a week, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.


If you are treating a known prazi sensitive species (ex. wrasse), you can run carbon or perform a water change 24 hours after dosing in order to limit exposure time. While praziquantel does remain active in the water column for up to 72 hours, only 24 hours are needed for it to eradicate external worms. Don't forget to still do the second round though!


Prazipro is generally considered reef safe, although it may kill any tube worms/feathers dusters you have. It may also eradicate bristle worms. If you have mass quantities of these, the resulting die-off can lead to an ammonia spike. After treatment is done, activated carbon may be used to remove any residuals (if you need to use a different medication next). If using a protein skimmer post-treatment, be advised that it will “over skim” for at least a couple of weeks.


Pros - Reef safe, effective dewormer that is relatively gentle on most fish.


Cons/Side Effects - Mild appetite suppression, moderate oxygen depletion, wrasses are sensitive to overdosing.


Edit: You can use this treatment calendar to determine when is the best time to add the second dose of Prazipro: Marine Parasites

ANTIBIOTICS


Antibiotics: Treats bacterial infections, which are oftentimes “secondary” to preexisting parasitic (and worm) infestations.


How To Treat – Follow the directions on the label of whatever product you are using. Always use a broad spectrum antibiotic medication i.e. one that treats both gram-positive and gram-negative bacterial diseases.


The following are medications I have experience using which contain wide spectrum antibiotic(s):


• Nitrofuracin Green Powder
• Seachem Kanaplex
• Furan-2
• Triple Sulfa Powder
• Maracyn 1 (erythromycin) + Maracyn 2 (minocycline) used in combination together
When battling a severe bacterial infection, combining Furan-2 + Kanaplex + metronidazole (ex. Seachem MetroPlex) can be both effective and safe.


The following are medications I have no experience using but these still contain wide spectrum antibiotic(s):


• Seachem Neoplex
• Seachem Sulfaplex
• Maracyn Plus
When using antibiotics, it is very important to treat for 10 consecutive days. Follow the instructions on the label - which may say to dose every 24 or 48 hours, do water changes, etc. But use the product for 10 continuous days (as directed). Sometimes a fish will look & act better after just a few days of treatment; however the infection can return if you end treatment prematurely. Or sometimes the opposite will happen, as antibiotics can be notoriously slow acting with fish. If a fish shows no signs of improvement after 10 days, then it’s time to try a completely different medication. Just like with humans, sometimes a certain fish will respond better to a different antibiotic. Or you have to find the proper antibiotic which will successfully target the offending bacteria. The latter is best accomplished by taking a skin scrape of the affected area(s) and identifying the harmful bacteria/infection on the fish's skin by using a microscope.


For internal infections, it is best to soak the fish food in an antibiotic such as Kanaplex. However, you'll need to use a binder, such as Seachem Focus, to prevent the medication from leaching out into the water. (The ratio is 1 scoop of Kanaplex + 1 scoop of Focus per 1 tablespoon of pellets or frozen food.) This approach will sometimeswork on external infections, but for those it is better to treat the water in a quarantine tank as outlined above.


Pros – Can be mixed with other medications; however still watch out for a bacterial bloom (cloudy water), especially when combining with Prazipro.


Cons/Side Effects – Suppresses appetite, depletes the water of oxygen (so provide additional gas exchange).
 
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FarmerTy

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So this is the full guide I use now. Some folks will begin with a FW dip but i think that is pretty stressful. My current setup is a 30 gallon long, with a reliable heater, a couple of cheap powerheads, a Seachem Tidal 55 hang on filter with just filterfloss in it, PVC pipe for the fish to hide, a seachem ammonia alert badge, and since I had an extra one laying around - an ATO. I siphon out up to a gallon of water a day and replace that gallon of water with replacement seawater. For the first month, the replacement seawater has the same concentration of CP as the original tank had. I then run a few days of carbon between the CP and Prazi treatments in the hang on filter. I was using a small skimmer in the QT tank but it really didn't do that much so I no longer use one.

Here is my blueprint for treatment in detail based on what Humblefish provided me:

TREATING WITH CP:


Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.


How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. Nowadays CP requires a prescription to purchase legitimately, making it more difficult to obtain. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet (or an MD) to write a prescription which can then be filled by a compounding pharmacy.


CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top-off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:
Prophylactic treatment is 40 mg per gallon.
For active infections (visible symptoms present), I typically will up the dosage to 60mg/gal. However, I cannot say if this is anymore effective than the "standard" 40mg/gal dose.
For Uronema marinum and really bad infestations, you can dose up to 80mg/gal. However, I have noticed appetite suppression and lethargy at this concentration. :oops:
As you can see, there is quite a bit of wiggle room between the minimum & maximum dosage. Practically speaking, 40mg/gal will treat all external protozoa issues… its just that the higher dosages may get the job done a little faster. Treatment lasts 30 consecutive days, and no carbon, UV, etc. may be used during this time (although it can be used later when you wish to remove the medication from the water.) A little quirk about CP is that light will degrade it; however it appears this mainly applies to the powder itself, so store your CP in a cool, dark place. Once in water, you may use an aquarium light with CP - however fish with velvet are light sensitive so I would only use ambient lighting (ex. lamp across the room) if treating for that. CP is NOT reef safe. In addition to killing your corals, it is a very strong algaecide.


Pros - Gentle on most fish (see DO NOT USE list below), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.


Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), powder is heat & light sensitive - so store in a cool, dark place. Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.


** Based upon anecdotal experience (mine and others), DO NOT USE CP on Anthias, Wrasses or Hippo Tangs. For the time being, chelated copper (exs. Coppersafe, Copper Power) is the best alternative to use on these species. **


** Finally, a place to buy Chloroquine: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-place-to-buy-chloroquine.252610/ **


** Special thanks to @svogun for providing this link, which can be used to find aquatic vets in your area for sourcing CP: Aquavets Online portal for finding aquatic veterinarians and diagnostic labs **




TREATING WITH PRAZIPRO – before or after CP


Prazipro (praziquantel): Treats flukes, black ich, and some internal parasites (worms).


How To Treat - In either a quarantine or display tank, dose Prazipro at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. DO NOT OVERDOSE (especially with wrasses), try not to mix with other medications (for various reasons), and provide additional gas exchange while treating with Prazi. Wait about a week, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.


If you are treating a known prazi sensitive species (ex. wrasse), you can run carbon or perform a water change 24 hours after dosing in order to limit exposure time. While praziquantel does remain active in the water column for up to 72 hours, only 24 hours are needed for it to eradicate external worms. Don't forget to still do the second round though!


Prazipro is generally considered reef safe, although it may kill any tube worms/feathers dusters you have. It may also eradicate bristle worms. If you have mass quantities of these, the resulting die-off can lead to an ammonia spike. After treatment is done, activated carbon may be used to remove any residuals (if you need to use a different medication next). If using a protein skimmer post-treatment, be advised that it will “over skim” for at least a couple of weeks.


Pros - Reef safe, effective dewormer that is relatively gentle on most fish.


Cons/Side Effects - Mild appetite suppression, moderate oxygen depletion, wrasses are sensitive to overdosing.


Edit: You can use this treatment calendar to determine when is the best time to add the second dose of Prazipro: Marine Parasites

ANTIBIOTICS


Antibiotics: Treats bacterial infections, which are oftentimes “secondary” to preexisting parasitic (and worm) infestations.


How To Treat – Follow the directions on the label of whatever product you are using. Always use a broad spectrum antibiotic medication i.e. one that treats both gram-positive and gram-negative bacterial diseases.


The following are medications I have experience using which contain wide spectrum antibiotic(s):


• Nitrofuracin Green Powder
• Seachem Kanaplex
• Furan-2
• Triple Sulfa Powder
• Maracyn 1 (erythromycin) + Maracyn 2 (minocycline) used in combination together
When battling a severe bacterial infection, combining Furan-2 + Kanaplex + metronidazole (ex. Seachem MetroPlex) can be both effective and safe.


The following are medications I have no experience using but these still contain wide spectrum antibiotic(s):


• Seachem Neoplex
• Seachem Sulfaplex
• Maracyn Plus
When using antibiotics, it is very important to treat for 10 consecutive days. Follow the instructions on the label - which may say to dose every 24 or 48 hours, do water changes, etc. But use the product for 10 continuous days (as directed). Sometimes a fish will look & act better after just a few days of treatment; however the infection can return if you end treatment prematurely. Or sometimes the opposite will happen, as antibiotics can be notoriously slow acting with fish. If a fish shows no signs of improvement after 10 days, then it’s time to try a completely different medication. Just like with humans, sometimes a certain fish will respond better to a different antibiotic. Or you have to find the proper antibiotic which will successfully target the offending bacteria. The latter is best accomplished by taking a skin scrape of the affected area(s) and identifying the harmful bacteria/infection on the fish's skin by using a microscope.


For internal infections, it is best to soak the fish food in an antibiotic such as Kanaplex. However, you'll need to use a binder, such as Seachem Focus, to prevent the medication from leaching out into the water. (The ratio is 1 scoop of Kanaplex + 1 scoop of Focus per 1 tablespoon of pellets or frozen food.) This approach will sometimeswork on external infections, but for those it is better to treat the water in a quarantine tank as outlined above.


Pros – Can be mixed with other medications; however still watch out for a bacterial bloom (cloudy water), especially when combining with Prazipro.


Cons/Side Effects – Suppresses appetite, depletes the water of oxygen (so provide additional gas exchange).

Perfect perfect perfect, what a great wrap up Mandarin! Its exactly my game plan as well with new additions... Thanks mostly to Humblefish's wide knowledge in the fish treatment world.
 

webster1234

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My opinion, trust no one but yourself. Get some CP, prazipro, and do the aforementioned treatment protocol. That way, if something bad happens, you have no one to blame but yourself.
 

RR-MAN

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It's awesome if LFS Qt these fish for a fee because some of you guys killing the fish not due to disease/parasite but stress. You know it's certain death when you put a tang in a 20/g. I saw one guy had 2 dwarf angels and a blue tang in a 20/g high. That's very horrible.

This time around since I have the space I have a 4ft isolation tank with some LR. I never use medication on my livestock.


  • Observing the fish at the LFS to make sure the body/fins is not showing any imperfections (yes i know parasites could be internal)

  • It eats frozen food at least
Isolating the fish for four weeks is good enough for me. Ich/velvet will definitely show it's ugly face in four weeks most likely. :scared:

Hey I have lost very few fish in the past 15/yrs. not to disease but jumping.

Horrible idea: See vidoe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Il_NytxlY
 

reeftopia

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Will say caca on ny aquatics and fish place. Have gotten several fish from ny aquatics covered with
disease. Had a fish from fish place wipe out 5 grand worth of fish in one week. As stated before trust no
one if you have a lot of fish you don't want to use. Even had a fellow reefer sell me a fish he said came
out of his tank just to find out he bought it a week earlier from a fish store. All stores use copper to
keep their fish healthy in the store but they are masking and it is up to you to quarantine to be safe.
great write up on protecting fish Mandarin is their somewhere I can print that?
 
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saltyanimals

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I agree with the earlier response some several LFS do run some level of copper, but that's not enough time or strength to really kill off bad things. The "right" way is what several of you mentioned like Mardarin, but again that's time consuming. And yes shouldn't trust anyone to say they properly QT fish, but that's why I'm looking locally since they have a local market to protect and thus must do it right. So pay for QT service anyone? lol.

I wouldn't say I have a thousands $$$ in fish to lose, but would gladly pay a premium for some QTed fish so I can just drop them in. That's probably why many of us on here look for used fishes. =) Figured if it lived for awhile in someone's tank, the chances are lower of it having something to risk your tank. Again, crossing fingers and toes there. So someone set up a proper QT. Let folks come in and buy fish to move it to QT and come back and pick up your fish in 4-6 weeks =)
 

nut_bar29

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I agree with the earlier response some several LFS do run some level of copper, but that's not enough time or strength to really kill off bad things. The "right" way is what several of you mentioned like Mardarin, but again that's time consuming. And yes shouldn't trust anyone to say they properly QT fish, but that's why I'm looking locally since they have a local market to protect and thus must do it right. So pay for QT service anyone? lol.

I wouldn't say I have a thousands $$$ in fish to lose, but would gladly pay a premium for some QTed fish so I can just drop them in. That's probably why many of us on here look for used fishes. =) Figured if it lived for awhile in someone's tank, the chances are lower of it having something to risk your tank. Again, crossing fingers and toes there. So someone set up a proper QT. Let folks come in and buy fish to move it to QT and come back and pick up your fish in 4-6 weeks =)

There is a guy in Houston that does QT and will not sell a fish that is sick. He’s name is Antonio his number is 713-853-7200. He’s prices are very reasonable too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

reefling

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There is a guy in Houston that does QT and will not sell a fish that is sick. He’s name is Antonio his number is 713-853-7200. He’s prices are very reasonable too.


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I don't think he does QT. He just observes them and makes sure they are eating from what I hear. I could he wrong.

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