New Sump... Old Fears (1 Viewer)

[r_jay]

Well after waiting for what has seemed to me a very long time, I finally found myself a sump I could afford (thanks to a fellow MARSH member selling cheap).


The only problem is I am nervous about setting it up on my 65RR tank. I only started in the hobby about this time last year!
This is what I have right now:


What I would like to do it swap out the flex hose and install PVC and a T-fitting to route water to the refugium section of the sump. What I do NOT want to do, is make a bad move and drain 65+ gallons of SW onto my carpet. I have seen a few set-ups and know what I want but in my family we have been cursed with ineptitude when dealing with plumbing.

I am just soliciting basic tips from those experienced in amateur plumbing so you can tell me what NOT to do and what TO do. Tips I could use are: Is it safe to mess with the bulkheads when the tank is full? What size PVC fittings would I need for an average 1" bulkhead? What type of glue? Suggestions on whether I should I make any MODS to the sump while it's dry (i.e. future improvements incl. ATO, filter socks, etc)?

I am in no hurry to get it installed, but any input would be greatly appreciated. I plan to solicit help from a friend (if your ankle heals up ED!) to assist me in this endeavor and am open to any other volunteers should there be someone out there that loves to plumb. Thanks in advance!

 

[trb]

I've changed my plumbing a couple of times since I initially set it up. I just had to tighten the bulkheads a small bit since they did start leaking a few drops after I removed the old plumbing. Are they threaded or slip (glue in) bulkheads? All my drain plumbing is 1". Make sure you put in a PVC threaded union so you can easily take it apart if you use rigid PVC, or get the spaflex tubing. Either way, I put unions real close to my bulkheads so there would be little stress on them when I take the plumbing apart. I have all spaflex plumbing except for my return line and the external skimmer line.

I would set up an ATO in the return section, it does not look real big, and you don't want the pump to run dry. I wouldn't bother with a filter sock unless you want it to polish the water real well. I use one, partly for bubble management and partly to catch the floating stuff. You could make a mount for it and have a slip bulkhead for your drain line above it.

There is lots more stuff, I'm sure others will add to it.

 

[r_jay]

Thanks Thomas, knew i could at least count on you, lol!

Here are my bulkheads, they screw in but have this to attach a flex-hose... and the return is a 3/4" bulkhead fitting... I do have another 1" bulkhead i could swap it out if needed though. actually i have 3, 2 of which have the threaded fitting. also I know I will be getting an ATO soon.




here is my sump today ^

 

[soymilk]

That sump was a great deal. But the picture of the sump kinda baffles me. (bad pun). How do you plan on connecting it?

Seem to me the far right can be a huge fuge area. Far left is where the drain and skimmer can go. And middle be he return area. I think this is best because you can use a slowly flow for the fuge area.

Or you could use the far left as the return, with the middle being the fuge. Very small fuge, but large area for toys. CaRx, kalk, reactors.

 

[r_jay]

lol, TOYS! yeah the middle will be the return but I don't want to set it up until I get an ATO and all the parts for plumbing the intake and return, I really don't want to screw up a good thing by messing up the plumbing(not that it's the best right now.

I want to go with PVC cause it looks so clean, but then I may have to swap out the bulkheads which means I may have to drain the tank! (drama)

I am very excited though cause I will finally get the space I have been wanting since right now my sump design sucks due to having my return pump next to my skimmer... stupid micro bubbles.

 

[trb]

If your overflow is sealed right, you shouldn't have to drain the tank, just the overflow area. I had to replace one of my bulkhead seals, and it was not too hard to do. So I assume the barbed part of the bulkhead is not a separate part?

What I would do on yours is I would replace the bulkheads with threaded ones, and think about changing the return to an emergency overflow. Then plumb your return up the back of the tank and over the top. You still have the screen top? That might be the only "problem", but it can be worked around. The rest of the plumbing is pretty simple. Just look at www.melevsreef.com at his plumbing diagrams, this one has some plumbing and diagrams towards the bottom of the page:

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html

 

[r_jay]

Yeah the barbed part is part of the bulkhead (it came with the megaflow kit)
I guess I will try to drain the overflow area to ensure I can do it, then swap out at least one bulkhead, I may leave the 3/4" vinyl or if I swap it out I need a reducer.
I really like the current return cause it has a nice loc-line y-fitting on it... but I will think about it. I got rid of the screen top when my 58 was dismantled (currently in pieces in garage ) and now I have 2 sections of egg-crate due to a center brace on the tank.

 

[r_jay]

Actually that bulkhead is a 3/4"... I wouldn't need a reducer but not sure I have a 3/4" threaded bulkhead... I may take a trip to CityPets.

I do wish the return area was larger though but I am determined to make it work, for the price I paid I am willing to work it to keep saving $. Since it's so small I don't see a need for an emergency drain cause my sump won't be able to overfill the DT

I checked out melevs F sump since it's so similar to mine, I will do pretty much just like he did but I want the valve on the intake below a t-fitting and then another line off the t will go to the refugium. I suck at measuring distances though I hope I can take the time to get everything cut right.

 

[trb]

If you don't mind a little more modding, you could enlarge the return section a bit by drilling some 1" or larger holes through the right side baffle and adding another baffle to the right of it, making the return section larger and the fuge section a bit smaller. And you can certainly make an external return hook back up to your loc line, just takes a few fittings. Fish gallery might have the bulkhead too, they do have some if they are closer.

 

[soymilk]

Size of the middle return isn't too bad. Just really need enough space for a return pump and float switches for ato. What else did you wanna put in there?

So you want to tee off the return pump? Into the fuge? Or tee off the drain line? Either way works. I was about snatch this sump up too. I am very pleased with the work from AA.

 

[r_jay]

tee off the drain would be easier, right now I have a rio8hf as a return pump so it will fit fine in the return but not sure it would do well with a tee.

My main concern with the size of the return area was small volume of water, but if I get an ATO I won't have to worry about it. Same thing goes for an emergency drain, would that really be necessary when maybe only 1-5 gallons(incl. ato water) from the sump could actually go to the DT should not flood the tank, ok 5 gallons from the ATO would overfill the dt but if I had a sensor in the dt then I could program it to shut off the return pump. But the volume of the return section of the sump itself could not overfill my tank.

 

[soymilk]

I don't quite understand. I don't see how your DT would ever flood as long as your overflow works. If too much water is pumped up, the same amount would come down.

 

[r_jay]

i always thought the emergency drain was in case the main drain couldn't keep up for one reason or another either being clogged, overworked, etc. correct me if I'm wrong thomas, lol.

 

[r_jay]

So after researching the "mega-flow" overflows thanks to google I found alot of people hated the barbed bulkhead fittings, so good to know I am not alone in wanting to swap out the bulkheads.

 

[trb]

The emergency drain is if, for some reason, your main drain is restricted, either by a snail, fish, algae, or whatever. Restrict the drain enough, and if the pump is still going, = water on the floor. My emergency also gets used if I have to reach down into the bottom of the tank to pick up or move something.

An emergency is not necessary 99% of the time, but I figure why not make it 100% flood proof from the DT overflowing.

 

[r_jay]

Thanks T that's what I thought, I see the usefulness but I think right now it would be a luxery and not a necessity so I just have to be watchful of the overflow stand-pipe clearing it occasionaly.

So I will put in the bulkheads and since they will be threaded I will put a union on the drain line... what about the return...? idk yet.

Now since the bulkhead will be threaded I will use teflon tape to ensure a clean seal but for the pvc I will use pvc primer and glue (this is a first for me)
I have no idea why i am so afraid of plumbing, but thanks for helping me out. I think in the next 6 months I may save up for a bigger return pump.

 

[trb]

You got it right! PVC is easy, just make sure the joints are square and free of burrs, slop on the primer (you can get clear or purple), put on the glue, then press fit, twist 1/4 turn and hold for a minute or so.

Make all your cuts and test fit the pipe with the joints, but don't push them together too far or you can't get them apart. You can mark the fittings & pipe with a sharpie if you need a reference to make sure you are assembling them right. They say to use two 45s instead of a 90 to make a less restrictive joint. I used 90s due to space constraints.

As for the return, If you do plumb it with PVC, I would put in a union just so you can easily remove it. And use the spaflex for part of it in the sump so you can easily remove the pump. I have a few extra fittings, valves and spaflex hose you can have if you want it from when I redid my plumbing the last time. Want to meet for lunch sometime? I can make it just about anywhere between BW8 and downtown if I take a long lunch.

 

[r_jay]

ok, great, this is the info I am looking for! 45's instead of 90's i guess would help with noise...
And marking the pipes with a marker

it's just using something like pvc isn't so forgiving when it comes to measurements so I want to make sure of lengths... "measure twice cut once" my dad says.

I have a bag at home with fittings I bought for when I drilled the 58g so I will pm you about the fittings if I need some, thanks!

 

[trb]

I'll take some pics of what I have this weekend. Much of the more expensive stuff is used, but the valves were cut so they could be reused. I don't think I will use any of them since if I get a new 120, I'll do the visible plumbing on the back of the tank in grey PVC.

 

[trb]

Here is a pic of what I have. Everything is 1". The white on top is the spaflex that was my old return, it has a union on it and threads to the bulkhead. The clear with the ball valve union was my drain.