replacement for Kalk (1 Viewer)

[Guest]

Ok.. I am getting tired of dosing with KALK.. Is there something i can add to my topoff water, that i dont have to let settle. Something that can be poured in in gallon increments?

Basically. A substitute for KALK , and the KALK procedure.. I still dont have a dosing pump, No sump.. No Refug.. Just 46gallon bow.. Maybe time releasing tablet?

 

[Guest]

It's like everyone has been telling me the last few days --- you didnt expect this to be EASY did you
I guess I had HOPED it would be EASIER that it is

 

[t0mmy108]

Hate to say this but the easiest solution I came up with for myself was a calcium reactor. It can get a bit expensive though.

 

[AggieBrandon]

You could use the 2 part calcium/alkalinity additives or you could use turbo calcium and then just top off with buffered ro/di water. Check out the reef calculator from reefcentral that tells about keeping calcium and alkalinity stable with what to dose etc. They offer some other alternatives you can use.

Brandon

 

[Guest]

With a nod to Niko (not to take away from all his good work) but what are items like the calcium reactor SO expensive. None of the parts look all that complex A large tube that you house a medium in and slowly bubble water thru. What am I missing here?

 

[Niko5]

Its that darn acrylic tube that has got to be by far the most expensive stuff in the world. I was checking out some of the square kalk reactors people have built recently they seem to work I was going to try one out some time.. they would be alot cheeper.

 

[Guest]

So why does it HAVE to be in an acrlic tube -- I know I'm an 'ol guy but I remember gallon glass jugs that things like pickels come in. Couldn't be more than a few bucks at a fleamarket or garage sale. Why cant they be used and cut costs? I assume they would be hardere or impossible to drill -- so dont drill them set up like you do with an over the back closed circuit.

 

[Niko5]

Im sure that would work and it probly wouldent be to hard to drill. Getting some kind of top flange on it thats not metal would be an issue.

 

[Guest]

What really drives up the price of a calcium reactor is all the parts you need. You can get the reactor itself for $200, even less if you find a good deal on a used one. But then you need a regulator (~$100), CO2 cylinder ($80-100) and optionally (but strongly recommended) a pH controller ($100).

I'm still trying to get mine dialed in correctly. My problem is that I got a crappy regulator, and I think I need to send it back to the manufacturer for repairs. I've resorted to using the pH controller to control the effluent pH instead of using the bubble counter - hopefully that will work well enough.

 

[Guest]

Back to Goldy's original question - a calcium reactor probably is overkill for a 46g bowfront, unless he has that thing jam packed with SPS colonies.

With a tank that small, I would mix up some of Randy Holmes Farley's homemade 2 part and just dose that. In a tank that small, you can probably get away with dosing a couple times a week. Another option to look into is the "kalk slurry" method. I used to use this method and it worked well, but now I prefer not to use kalk at all (potential source of phosphates).

 

[Guest]

If you dose your calcium via CA(0h2) as your only input now, and you dislike it, then you can supplement your calcium like everyone else has already said,However...you still will need the hydroxal input which raises your ph.If you are sick of the fact that Carbon dioxide reacts with air and renders it worthless try Sodium Hydroxide which doesnt have the same reaction with Co2.You could make up a couple of weeks worth at a time and then drip it.Also it does not clog drip lines the way kalk does.You still get the ph boost(actually stronger) and the only byproduct is sodium which will compound with abundant chloride in the system and you are left with saltwater.....no big deal.Hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

So , can I just use a PH buffer, topoff and and some liquid calcium , and not drip any kalk? I usually make a bucket of kalk, and the next day, use a baster to get a galloon out, and pour a cup in every 10 minutes..

 

[Guest]

Yes, you can just use buffer (baking soda) and calcium chloride to keep each part in balance. Turbo Calcium is more cost effective than the liquid calcium, but it's essentially the same stuff.

 

[Guest]

So , can I just use a PH buffer, topoff and and some liquid calcium , and not drip any kalk? I usually make a bucket of kalk, and the next day, use a baster to get a galloon out, and pour a cup in every 10 minutes..

So your finding it difficult to do because you just pour the kalk water into the tank and don't drip it? (or am I just misreading?)

If this is the case have your tried something like this: http://www.reefwebsites.com/agu/kalkdrip/

Just use the largest container you can find and get two and just keep swaping them out.

 

[Guest]

.If you are sick of the fact that Carbon dioxide reacts with air and renders it worthless try Sodium Hydroxide which doesnt have the same reaction with Co2.

I am sorry but I haven't keep up with my reef chem classes, could someone update my notes, on what and where one gets sodium hydroxide, and where would I be using carbon dioxide?

 

[MMaddox]

Get a float switch (www.californianreefs.com), a pump, and a bucket of kalk+water, and you have an autotopoff\dosing system

 

[Cakepro]

Eric, can you explain how one can dose their tank with caustic soda? I have a bunch of it that I have on hand for nuking aiptasia and for stripping brine shrimp cysts.

 

[Trey]

WOW!!! What a chemistry quandry.

Narkon,

Carbon dioxide does not react with air. I assume Eric mistyped. I think he meant to say that kalkwasser reacts with carbon dioxide in air. This produces highly insoluble (at least in fresh water) calcium cabonate (limestone) This is the kind of chemistry the hill country was built on, literally.

Now for my views on the subject at hand, Calcium Addition. I am likely under-informed on this subject, so please forgive any misstatements I might make.

There are three primary means of calcium addition practiced in modern reef chemistry (other methods are available but not commonly practiced). They are lime dosing (kalkwasser), calcium reactors, and calcium chloride addition. I will discuss them separately, and add a bunch of my useless opinions.

1. Kalkwasser
Kalkwasser is calcium oxide (pickling lime) dissolved in fresh water. The calcium oxide is hydrolized to form calcium hydroxide upon dissolution. A saturated solution of kalkwasser will have an initial pH of about 12.0. This is very basic and will damage your marine fauna if added too quickly. Additionally, the calcium hydroxide will react with carbon dioxide in air to form the insoluble calcium carbonate. This insoluble compound regularly causes problems with dosing pumps and can also cause line plugging.

Often times we try to make up a settled (saturated) solution of kalkwasser and then use it for top-off. This is very problematic in that it will inevitably see small amounts of carbon dioxide and create the dreaded limestone. Some try to get around this by using a kalkwasser reactor. This does resolve some of the challenges associated with the external mix and settle method.

Another option is kalkwasser slurry addition. This is a method I have practiced for a long time (over a year). The up side to this method is that the kalkwasser is made up at the time of use and very little insoluble calcium carbonate results. The downsides include concerns over pH swings and the task of daily additions. I found that with careful addition (slowly over several minutes per 1/4 teaspoon), I could affectively add up to 3/4 of a teaspoon of calcium oxide dissolved in water while only realizing a 0.2 positive pH deviation in my 55 gallon reef. With my new 180 gallon tank, I am building a kalkwasser reactor to minimize the routine nature of this process.

A definite plus for this method is that the addition of kalkwasser not only supports calcium requirements but also helps to maintain the tanks alkylinity. This is due to the addition of hydroxide ions associated with the calcium hydroxide. When the calcium hydroxide reacts with carbon dioxide to form calcium carbonate, the hydroxide is available to neutralize an acidic compounds in the water. This supports the tanks alkylinity.


2. Calcium Reactors

The use of calcium reactors for calcium addition is likely the most natural and most convenient means of calcium addition. As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, it is also the most costly up front investment for adding calcium to a reef tank.

This process is based on dissolving a natural aragonite substrate using salt water that has a low pH. The pH is reduced by the addition of carbon dioxide. In solution, carbon dioxide forms carbonic acid following a reaction with water. (Check the pH of a carbonated drink sometime. No wonder I spend so much time at the dentist) This carbonic acid reduces the pH of the salt water. With reduced pH, the aragonite is dissolved to form calcium carbonate in a salt water solution. The limit of calcium dissolution is regulated by the saturation point at any given pH.

This process requires pH monitoring of the tank and automatic shut-off functions to prevent dangerous pH dips. This means of calcium addition mimics well the natural process of calcium dissolution that occurs in the ocean.

3. Calcium Chloride Addition

The final method discussed here is the addition of calcium chloride. The addition of calcium chloride is quick, relatively cheap, and very easy. So why doesn't everyone do it? Firstly, it requires the addition of another compound to support alkylinity. The addition of calcium chloride will reduce a tanks alkylinity sharply and this mandates the addition of a buffering solution. As stated by Eric (Reefsaver) this buffering can be accomplished by using sodium hydroxide. Alternately, a standard buffering solution such as a sodium carbonate/sodium bicarbonate can also be used. Given a fairly stable calcium uptake rate, simple experimentation can reveal the proper proportions of these two components to add.

The two-part calcium addition systems are typically based on this type of chemistry. The upside to two-part systems is the premeasured ratios of the two parts. The downside is the price. There are numerous internet references to the use of cheap homemade calcium chloride systems with secondary buffering addition based on baking soda and washing powder mixtures. If anyone chooses to use sodium hydroxide in place of a traditional reef buffer, please keep in mind the very hazardous nature of liquid caustic systems.

I hope this doesn't just confuse everyone even more. I think I just confused myself. That's why I love this hobby, because it's not easy.

Later,
Trey

 

[AggieBrandon]

pH dips can be prevented by using reverse photoperiod on your refugium. I don't use a ph monitor or controller on my reactor (runs constantly unless solenoid trips with power outage) and my pH remains steady at 8.2 with an occasional drop to 8.1 during the middle of the night.

Brandon

 

[Rusalka]

And here, i have not seen my tank get above 8.0 pH in a month without dumping a gallon of kalk or buffer into it.