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So what’s the general consensus for sump size and layout? I am considering a new sump to give me a little more dry space under my tank and possibly add filter roll.

Edit: stand is 72x21.5” the sump in there now is 48” and I am considering a 36” that basically has a space for a roller filter, a skimmer compartment and a small fuge

I know everyone has always said “go as big as you can” but with todays approach the sump can be more efficient in the role it plays. Does this result in a possibility to shrink the sump to free up more dry room under the tank?
 
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soymilk

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really depends on your bioload I would assume. any how many toys you wanna put in the sump.

the bigger question is how you gonna get the current sump out lol
 
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Yea its a long term project. I will probably wind up ripping out the weir system, add a Reefmat if I can find one reasonably priced) and modifying the plumbing. I keep dialing in the system in and it’s good until it falls out of tune. The socks fill up, the water slows, the pump cavitates… it’s partially my fault because return pump is a little large but a larger system with an ATO should not start acting up with a few missing drops of water.

I am not crazy about the Neptunian sump and tank overflow. The tank overflow has 2 ports at the bottom of the overflow and a double wall inside of the over flow. It’s not a great design imho and causes extra water noise from water pushing over the double wall and splashes into the main overflow compartment but nothing I can do about that. I stuffed floss into those areas and the water has stopped splashing there. If I had my way I would use a Fiji overflow w/ dual return pumps and a sump with a filter roll system 🤷‍♂️.
 
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If I could do it all over again, I would have a large box and just sit all my equipment inside that large box without partitions. easier to work down in the sump, an plumb however you want, it doesn't matter if any of the equipment leaks (sitting in the sump), not the normal constraints on equipment footprint size, and a simple glass box or acrylic box should be cheaper.
 

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I am not crazy about the Neptunian sump and tank overflow. The tank overflow has 2 ports at the bottom of the overflow and a double wall inside of the over flow. It’s not a great design imho
See, I'm the opposite. My current 90 gallon Oceanic has an AGA/Aqueon "Megaflow" overflow box... It's double walled with 2 sets of intake slots (middle and bottom) I'm addition to the weir at the top. I really like this design but none of the custom tank builders I looked at use a similar design so I'll have to get used to a regular one, lol.
 

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So what’s the general consensus for sump size and layout? I am considering a new sump to give me a little more dry space under my tank and possibly add filter roll.

Edit: stand is 72x21.5” the sump in there now is 48” and I am considering a 36” that basically has a space for a roller filter, a skimmer compartment and a small fuge

I know everyone has always said “go as big as you can” but with todays approach the sump can be more efficient in the role it plays. Does this result in a possibility to shrink the sump to free up more dry room under the tank?
I like the Eshopps R-300 (now AR-300 Aqua fuge) sump. Probably not enough room for a filter roller, but worth a look.
 

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See, I'm the opposite. My current 90 gallon Oceanic has an AGA/Aqueon "Megaflow" overflow box... It's double walled with 2 sets of intake slots (middle and bottom) I'm addition to the weir at the top. I really like this design but none of the custom tank builders I looked at use a similar design so I'll have to get used to a regular one, lol.
i have the same kind of overflow but times 2. The idea is cool, but cleaning it sucks. The bottom and middle weirs just get gunked up or get lots of coraline build up, and on a 30 inch tall tank, you can imagine the nightmare.
 

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I like the Eshopps R-300 (now AR-300 Aqua fuge) sump. Probably not enough room for a filter roller, but worth a look.
This is the exact sump I want to replace lol. It works well and looks nice, but the maintenance isn't as easy as I would like compared to a box with no sections. Imagine, a filter roller wherever you want inside the sump, or sock holders, then a ATS or macro Algae reactor, other reactors where ever you want (media, kalk, calcium), put your biological filters wherever, then you have the open space to clean or modulate as you need. Maybe make a return section to make your ato work better...
 

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When looking at what makes for a good or bad sump, or if one is better than the other, then you must first think about what a sump does. I would submit that a sump serves three purposes; space to hide your equipment, a way to dial in top-off, and to add water volume.

1) Space to hide your equipment: this one is very cut and dry. It's hard to put a skimmer, heaters, etc. into a display tank, which is why we use sumps. Even if you could fit them all in, they're an eye-sore. As long as the sump accommodates the filtration equipment that you plan to use, plus some extra room for a little expansion in the future (always going to want to try new toys), then this requirement is met. Even if there is no room for expansion, at bare minimum, it must accommodate what you're planning on currently using.

2) Top-Off: That return pump chamber is vital. It isolates where evaporation is expressed, and allows you to maintain a constant level in the equipment part of your sump. This allows you to dial in your equipment to run more efficiently with stable conditions, whether it be a constant water height for your skimmer, constant water height for your reactor to maintain the same flow rate, etc. As the water level in the return pump chamber fluctuates based off of your top-off system, it has no effect on any other part of your tank, and it's important to isolate the fluctuation there.

3) Water Volume: Years ago when I was just getting into corals seriously, I went to a fellow reefer here in Houston that at one point, was world renowned. He left the hobby years ago but will be coming back soon, based off of what he has been saying recently. I was telling him (Dennis, aka d2mini for the older reefers) that I had a 40 breeder and I was struggling to keep things alive, let alone thrive. Keep in mind, when Ecotech first launched the Radions, they used his 135 gallon cube tank as the poster child for their advertising. His advice to me was that he himself had never been successful until he got north of 100 gallons, and that if I could make it work in my 40 breeder, then there's no tank I couldn't make thrive. I eventually was able to dial in a smaller tank like a 40 breeder, and once I upgraded, the rest was much easier.

I said that to say this: you need to have a chamber in your sump that fills almost to the top of the sump, circulates water into the main system, and adds water volume. It makes everything easier. My personal goal on this is roughly 20% of your water volume being in a chamber with maybe live rock, but no lights, frags, or anything else. It exists simply to hold water. This will make your life so much easier no matter what you're trying to accomplish. Everything moves slower with larger water volumes, which means everything is more stable.

For my current fish room expansion, I'm probably going to buy two tall, thin water vats (don't want to take up too much real estate) that will plug into my two reef systems. Water goes in, water goes out with each their own pump that pushes water in and plumbing flow back into the sump. Whenever it's time to do a manual water change, just turn off the pump pushing water in, drain the chamber, fill it back up, then turn back on the pump. Very simple.



Here's my personal sump design that I use that enforces the three principles described above. This is the exact model I use on both systems. It holds roughly 20% of total water volume of each system, with both sumps varying in size. This drawing is based off of a 20 long that was converted to a sump, which is what my secondary (smaller) system is using. The return pump should be oversized, and regulated with gate valve 1. Gate valve 2 controls the flow through the added water volume chamber. The flow through the water volume chamber doesn't need to be a whole lot, just enough to keep it circulated. You could even throw a dedicated pump in their to eliminate dead spots, or use it as a place to pool detritus that you can easily syphon out.

sump model.png
 
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I had the same idea for a water holding tank for quick water changes.

But I was gonna use those Rubbermaid pond trough
 

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I had the same idea for a water holding tank for quick water changes.

But I was gonna use those Rubbermaid pond trough
For many reasons, the vertical vat is better, but real estate is such a large reason that I can't see the benefit of the trough, whether you have a fish room or just under the stand.
 

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In my pea brain I imagine one day having a huge wet room with unlimited space. More of a dream though. Although I agree with you that vertical tanks would be a more efficient use of space. I like the idea of just having a flex area for whatever needs pop up.

Need to house some fish before they go into the tank? Sure why not. Need to house some corals for someone’s tank that’s crashing. Throw em in the trough. Might not be your thing, I can understand. But for me, it would be nice to have if space permits.
 
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So no filter socks or other mechanical filtration? Just straight down and into the equipment chamber? Probably not.

So that would give the sump 4 chambers given the return drops into a sock section or something of that nature. The nature of questioning was how the designs like filter rollers eliminate the filter sock. Products like reefmat connect directly to to main return and that sits in main component chamber. By eliminating the 4th section, can we redesign the sump to be more efficient? In the neptunian sump the return drops into a small, higher than everything else, section. The leads to a small, slightly lower, weir system that runs to the filter sock and finally to the component chamber -> ceramic media section/fuge and finally to another grate that leads to the return pump section. If I can get rid of the weir and everything that is between the main return and the component chamber, can I redesign and use smaller sump?
 

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In my pea brain I imagine one day having a huge wet room with unlimited space. More of a dream though. Although I agree with you that vertical tanks would be a more efficient use of space. I like the idea of just having a flex area for whatever needs pop up.

Need to house some fish before they go into the tank? Sure why not. Need to house some corals for someone’s tank that’s crashing. Throw em in the trough. Might not be your thing, I can understand. But for me, it would be nice to have if space permits.
Some words of wisdom from someone that always expands: You will never have enough space. We are addicts, much akin to hoarders. No matter what space you have, you will fill it up. That's why I like the vat idea. You secure water volume but can't physically put corals or fish in there.

Save me from myself
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So no filter socks or other mechanical filtration? Just straight down and into the equipment chamber? Probably not.

So that would give the sump 4 chambers given the return drops into a sock section or something of that nature. The nature of questioning was how the designs like filter rollers eliminate the filter sock. Products like reefmat connect directly to to main return and that sits in main component chamber. By eliminating the 4th section, can we redesign the sump to be more efficient? In the neptunian sump the return drops into a small, higher than everything else, section. The leads to a small, slightly lower, weir system that runs to the filter sock and finally to the component chamber -> ceramic media section/fuge and finally to another grate that leads to the return pump section. If I can get rid of the weir and everything that is between the main return and the component chamber, can I redesign and use smaller sump?
Long before acrylic sumps had specific brackets that held filter socks in place, you could just slide a filter sock up the downpipe. If it got full, then it overflowed, which meant you needed to change it. I'm relatively certain those same physics still apply today ;):p

The system I'm describing doesn't include any weirs, nor would I implement them, given the choice. Weirs are meant to strain larger items like fish or snails. They impairs your sumps ability to skim from the surface, and you couldn't pay me to have them in my sump. They reduce the efficiency of organic compound integrating into the water column, aka how much junk reaches your filtration.

 
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Long before acrylic sumps had specific brackets that held filter socks in place, you could just slide a filter sock up the downpipe. If it got full, then it overflowed, which meant you needed to change it. I'm relatively certain those same physics still apply today ;):p
Ur a funny guy. I have been reefing before socks became a thing and people where still using bio balls.

The system I'm describing doesn't include any weirs, nor would I implement them, given the choice. Weirs are meant to strain larger items like fish or snails. They impairs your sumps ability to skim from the surface, and you couldn't pay me to have them in my sump. They reduce the efficiency of organic compound integrating into the water column, aka how much junk reaches your filtration.


Which is why I am considering ripping all that crap out or replacing the entire sump. Again, my question was In reference to improved efficiency of modern equipment and if it has affected the need for the “go as large as you can” approach to the sump area of the system. I mean, the lesson in sump methodology and functions is educational and useful but really doesn’t address my question. I have witnessed the change of sump design and the evolution has been tremendous from the aforementioned bio balls. I am tryin to find out if anyone has has pushed beyond that since equipment has evolved as well. Based on your approach I would venture to say nothing has changed in your opinion.

Edit: for what it’s worth, I see royal exclusive dream box sumps and other crazy high dollar sump designs still following the larger the better approach as well.
 
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So let’s say I rip out all that weir jazz and reconfigure. I can probably do it in a day, but the silicone takes 24hrs to fully cure. Any ideas on how to keep the tank in running condition during that time? I guess I could set up a temp sump on the side of the tank or whatever but maybe 1 or 2 5g buckets would work? What has been to solution others have used? Like if you have a leaking sump or whatever?
 

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So let’s say I rip out all that weir jazz and reconfigure. I can probably do it in a day, but the silicone takes 24hrs to fully cure. Any ideas on how to keep the tank in running condition during that time? I guess I could set up a temp sump on the side of the tank or whatever but maybe 1 or 2 5g buckets would work? What has been to solution others have used? Like if you have a leaking sump or whatever?
As long as the display still has good flow, stable temp, and a way to oxygenate the water, going a day without filtration should be fine. Or are you worried about keeping biomedia, etc from the sump alive?
 
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I was only considering the DT. The Bio media Should be able to throw in a bucket with a heater and should be no problem for 24hrs.

After a conversation with a friend (Thanks
@soymilk) I went and did some measuring. I was so angry at the inconsistent performance and difficulty of tuning the tank that I was really looking forward to getting rid of either the whole sump or at least the annoying sock setup. I never really considered working with it or around it so when I did measure and took a look, it actually had enough room to hold a Reefmat if I move some things around. Kind of like I couldn’t see the forest because of all the trees.
 
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