Sump questions...filter sock or not? (1 Viewer)

[xmjxflipx]

I have a 30x14x14 sump...Just recently took out about 35 pounds of live rock in their because their was so much of this rubble/detritus settling on the bottom...........

currently run a filter sock, well the thing has been getting clogged lately really fast...maybe 2-3 days max....constantly keep changing it...

Does anyone run their sump sockless? and is their any residual effects if detritus builds up in the sump, like is it a huge nitrate factory and etc....?

-also if i put a K2 powerhead to stir the detritus from settling will that be better, and was just wondering if i place the powerhead there if the flow will affect an internal skimmer performance negatively in any way...

 

[AquaNerd]

i used to run socks, but they got too clogged too quickly. i ditched them and never had any issues.

i do notice a build up of detritus, but i usually just go in and agitate it so my skimmer will pick it up. a powerhead in that portion of your sump will help, but that just means it will accumulate in a different dead spot.

 

[xmjxflipx]

i know..thats the problem im having now..the clear water is nice...but ive seen people run sockless just fine.......but was wondering if the detritus built up can have any deleterious effects in regards to water quality or having nitrate issues.

Also is a K3 too much flow u think...? im gonna have an internal skimmer in there in about a month but dont know if im pushing alot of flow in there and with an internal skimmer if it affects the skimmers performance negatively u think?

 

[djreef]

Sockless - love it. But then I'm pushing about 8,000 gph through a 115, and I vacuum the gravel once per week when I do the 5 gal water change.

DJ

 

[xmjxflipx]

WOW 8000gph? thats like over 70x turnover LOL nice, what pump are u using DJ

 

[djreef]

Mag 18 on the return, but I think I'm about to swap for a Waterblaster @ about 2200gph. I'd like to cut back on the current draw of the system. I'm thinking that's about all the overflo and subsequent flow through the refugium can handle. Also running dual SRO 1000 skimmers. In tank circulation consists of 2 Koralia 8s (3250gph each). One running intermittent every 20 seconds. and last but not least - an Aqueon back filter running wide open on the fuge for counter circulation purposes. I estimate that with head pressure I'm running about 1400gph through the sump alone, which should go up a few hundred gph when I get the new pump.

DJ

 

[xmjxflipx]

hey how do u like the SROs?? are those with the bubble blaster pumps?

 

[djreef]

hey how do u like the SROs?? are those with the bubble blaster pumps?

They rock. One outskims my old AquaC 180 by about 30%. The two save me about 75 watts/hr over the Mag 9 driving the old AquaC.

DJ

 

[Llama]

Back to sockless for about a week now. I also got tired of changing them every few days. I never ran one on the old PM 30 and never had an issue.

My skimmer keeps it's chamber almost completely detritus free just from the water output. The rest gets taken care of MAYBE once a month with the turkey baster. I should do it more because my coral and other filter feeders love it. I would say to use the K3 until you have the internal skimmer in there. Just because it will collect less. You may not need it once the skimmer is up and running though.

I think any nitrate production would be taken care of by macro in the fuge. I've never had a test show positive.

 

[kevinandnadine]

Heres a vote for filter socks
I do run two of the 7or8 inch 100 micron so I only need to wash them about once a week
I feel the more nutient export the better

 

[Tnconcept]

Same here I will run it to clear up the water then stop using it for a while... Just me 2 cents worth!

 

[rxonco]

I've only recently started using one. I've got a goby that digs a stirs stuff up quite a bit. I noticed a lot of buildup in the sump and decided to grab some socks at City Pets. I got three, so I've always got a clean one to switch out. I change them about every three or four days. Much cleaner and more clarity since the switch.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

Now I'm new, so I don't know anything. It seems that if the sock is getting dirty and clogging up, you would want to keep cleaning and replacing. Why would you want to get rid of it? To me, that is like saying, I'm tired of emptying my skimmer cup every 3 days, so I'm going to turn it off and not use it. There are a lot of other people that don't use one.

I don't understand that logic.

With that said, I don't use a sock. I do cut some filter fabric stuff and place under the drain line every two or three weeks when I perform a water change and stir everything up. I keep it two days or so and throw it away till next water change.

that's me. maybe someone could educate me here.

 

[Llama]

I think it all depends on the person. I've run both ways, and mainly just got tired of cleaning the socks and having them laying around drying. Not to mention the crud which doesn't come out very easily, and I'm not one to use the clothes washer to wash two socks.

Carbon does a great job of making my water clear. Also I run an oversized skimmer so I don't feel the need for more mechanical filtration.

 

[flipside]

I don't run any filtration other than Live Rock and a skimmer. My tank's doing great. Oh, I do run carbon every now and then, but that's only because Mike (Llama) looked shocked/disturbed when he saw how my sump looked. (D@mn peer pressure!)

I run nothing 95% of the time.

If you want "crystal clear" all the time, try socks, UV sterilization, carbon/GFO, low iron glass or acrylic, weekly 20% water changes, and an Ozonizer. Careful though... you might have a heart attack (after looking at your wallet) or bump your head walking into it.

 

[Llama]

Ha ha ha! Your entire setup is dope Leo. Shiii, come to think of it you are my main marsh mentor!

He's right though, anything can be done... for the right price.

Socks (similar to carbon or filter floss) can be a great tool and very helpful, but it's not right for me long term.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

so the sock is strictly for water clarity?

If the sock is clogging up, then it is getting dirty, no? It seems that one would want to keep it, or get one in my case.

it seems this is an easy, cheap alternative to adding a bunch of extra chemicals into the water.

now, the sock has nothing to do with filtering nitrates or phosphates? other than creating more if not maintained?

oh, sorry. maybe i should start my own thread so i don't hijack this one trying to learn something that i probably should already know something about.

 

[flipside]

First, thanks Mike! I appreciate that! (got you fooled)

And for RocketSurgeon, no... it does clear/clean the water column. They filter out floating debris, but they also clog up fast! The older the system, the quicker they clog! There's just more efficient, less time consuming ways of getting the same effect from filtration (i.e. less feeding, better skimming, water changes w/good water, etc...). When the detrius builds up in my sump, I siphon it out when I do my water change... simple as that.

I use "no" chemicals to reduce phosphates or nitrates. What chemical are you referring to, in regards to keeping the water "clean?" Are you using some now? GFO and carbon are what most guys tend to use (nothing against that method), but I try to veer from all of that stuff because it's just one more "thing" to have to worry about/pay for.

I really hate to sound like a prude (I really am not when not using my Cyber Identity ) but that last group of questions really require some research on your part. Don't just go off of what you read on this thread. Really do your homework. Bacteria, Phosphates, Nitrates, Nitrites, Algae, Macro Algae, etc, etc... you really should start researching what benefits these "things" do to our mini-reefs, and how they can be detrimental. Wanna know a safe way to do "everything" without having to worry all the time?

Steady, scheduled, water changes! Good husbandry "revolves" around water changes, IMO. Get a good RO/DI unit and find a decent salt mix. Mix every week, and do a 10-20% water change every week, on the same day (same time frame if you can). Your tank will "love" you for it, and it will appreciate you sticking to the schedule.

A bit of a digression here, but I've seen some pretty slick water change systems out there! That's going to be my primary focus when I build my next system.

Any way, I know MANY reefers that don't run skimmers, socks, HOB filtration, carbon, and all that... they just do water changes. Many of these guys have been ridin' this way for YEARS! I tried turning my skimmer off for a week once, and I just couldn't do it. My tank needed the glass scraped nearly twice a day! It's because I feed my fish too much (beggars!) So, it really depends on "you."

I really HTHs!

 

[Llama]

Gotta learn it sometime right? I think it's still on the topic so I will add my two cents.

Socks help water clarity buy pulling larger particles, poo, and other DOM from the water. The skimmer gets the smaller stuff that gets through the sock. The way I see it though... is that the skimmer will get a lot of that larger DOM that the sock would usually be trapping. The skimmer will need to be cleaned more often, but to me it is much easier to clean the skimmer neck and pump each week than it is to get all that crap that has been ground into fabric. The rest of the stuff that the skimmer misses flows through the system (most often this is invisible) and turns into coral, filter feeder, and fuge food. Eventually it will all get consumed by one thing or another.

By the way, you are correct that the sock will not remove nitrate or phosphate. It will trap the things that cause these when they break down. If not cleaned they will eventually leak back into the system and cause issues. The same goes for any part of your sump that is not cleaned, whether it be by living things (pods, stars, snails, macro) or by our turkey baster.

 

[Llama]

Don't just go off of what you read on this thread. Really do your homework. Bacteria, Phosphates, Nitrates, Nitrites, Algae, Macro Algae, etc, etc... you really should start researching what benefits these "things" do to our mini-reefs, and how they can be detrimental.

Careful! Leo will turn you into one of us fish nerds with this kind of talk!

Seriously though, the best way to get the big picture on these systems is to read the many great articles available on the web and in print. You can learn a lot on forums, but never really understand and put it all together until you read up on all these that Leo mentioned, and how they are all involved in the works of our tanks. Then when you come back to these forums and others, you can sift through some of the BS, make your own well informed opinions, and even help others such as yourself with your new found knowledge.

My experience with you rocket is that you have already fully caught the bug, and are probably reading some article on fluid dynamics or denitrification as I am typing this.