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Thriving reef secrets - UV use !!! (1 Viewer)

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PSXerholic

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Since this is a current subject on my tank system, I thought to share this info.
Overall, UV is a good thing to have the tank going through the years.
It helps to avoid or better minimize potential issues down the road.

All right………….UV…………….trying to keep it simple!

There are multiple reasons why it’s beneficial /precautional and unfortunately expensive to run a UV sterilizer.
I say Sterilizer since there is a difference betweensanitizing and sterilizing.

1.) Bacteria control and prevention
In my case, many of you know that I run a bacterialmethod to manage my nutrients, means I overpopulate the good bacteria to breakdown waste.
This can be done in a variety of methods such asBiopellets, Zeo, Vinegar, VSV or any other liquid bacteria supplements etc.

So I use VSV, wich is a mix of different carbons inaddition to amino acids to feed bacteria.
The bad part of any bacterial method is, that you do notjust feed the good bacteria, also you feed the bad bacteria L!!!

These bacteria can be worst case “Pest bacteria” such asRed slime or any other “Disease bacteria” that are harmful to our corals suchas brown jelly disease, Vibrio and many other Bacterial-Coral/Tank diseases.
Many of the bacterial diseases are still unknown.

Bad part of bacterias is, they come in with the niceCoral from a store or coral dealer and even Hydrogen/Peroxide Bayer dip won’tkill it. Some Bacteria will survive deep down in the Coral and rock.
So unless these bacteria do not have a reason toexcessively overpopulate by carbons, high temperatures, amino acid addition,many nutrients etc. they will keep populating in the tank.

In my particular case, I did see (likely from too muchAminos and excessive feeding), a slight overpopulation of “Scavenger bacterialike they are in Waste Away”, which are heterotrophic bacteria types. Thesebacteria do only live in the water column, and do not settle on substrate. Theycan multiply by 10x within 15minutes with enough light and eat all kind ofwaste very effective.
However, if those are excessive in the tank, in a waythat you see a slight hazel in the water when you look along the tank, thenthis can end up in a problem.
a. It can be easily come to a sudden huge bloom wipingout the tank since these bacteria consume a lot of oxygen.
b. Their Oxygen consumption will result in less oxygen,elevated Co2 and therefore causing low PH, especially over night!!! No good inHouston !!!
c. The waste oxidation process consume a lot of ALK,supporting a. & b.
d. A few more undesired effects on water chemistry suchas low ORP etc.
e. Food for Corals and the good bacteria are limitedsince heterotrophic bacteria tend to eat and consume the goodies that thecorals and other bacteria like to have. Means these bad bacteria can competeout the good and desired ones.

This effect can happen easily in fully matured tanksystems that ran for years with no issue. No warning, it just happens!!!!

So a good UV Sterilizer will be able, if correctly sized,help to prevent overpopulation of most bad bacteria in a matured tank systemsince those are mainly heterotrophic.
Do not apply this to a new system, since the “good” boysstill have to grow everywhere in the substrate first.

Keep in mind that some scavenger bacteria cannot becompeted out in a tank by other bacteria in the substrate. They do take thefood source away from the bacteria that live in the substrate which makes it insome cases impossible to bring the tank back in balance. In those cases theonly way is a Hydrogen Peroxide Injection reactor method or a strong UV ;-)

2.) Fish diseases and parasites……….do not forget allkinds of Fish fungus, viruses and parasites such as our friend ICH.

A UV will help to keep parasites and diseases in check.

3.) Better Water conditions
Utilization of a UV will increase the filtration andskimmer efficiency!!!
I observed right after starting the UV, that ORP went up,and skim-mate became more, darker and more stinky, lol.

Also it makes the water more crisp, helps to minimize oreven in some case replaces the use of Activated carbon to remove yellow tint.

That means more PAR and more blue spectrum to yourcorals, which can make a big difference on certain coral colors.

Higher REDOX/ORP means also better Co2/O2 ratio whichsupports to elevate the tank PH.

4.) UV types
I did use a variety of UV lamps in the recent years andmostly did only turn on the UV when needed.
Keep your hands off the Coralife and cheap sterilizer.They might scare the bacteria but mostly do not really work well.
Some have even metal parts in there that will corrode andscrew the tank water.
I can strongly recommend the Aqua UV type or TMC typesterilizer that come with a high pressure true UV-C lamp.

See this article about UV that I found useful and simplyexplains the importance and difference of bulbs and type of sterilizer.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html


5.) Sizing is the biggest issue.
A UV unit should be good for preventive action, but alsobe properly sized to handle asap a bloom or parasitic issue when needed.
So for prevention you use high flow, and for asap actionyou lower the flow to have higher reaction time in the lamp.
From my experience the minimum size should be at least a57W for a 200G tank as a guide.

6.) Installation and dwelling time
Don’t run UV in the sump recirculating the water.
Have a secondary pump taking filtered water and feed itback to the tank.
I tried it and it makes a huge difference!
Another issue with a loop only in the sump, you likelyrun into over sterilization of the sump which is bad for regugia and biomediasumps!
More about this can be found here:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html

Also for the different purposes have the pump loop with arelief valve equipped to be able to vary the flow. In that case you can playwith the flow and exposure time to avoid over sterilization in “preventivemode” if a strong UV is installed.

In order to avoid full sterilization between the sump andtank, I hooked up the UV on one of my two return pumps.
That will still allow planktons and bacteria from thesump to be imported back to the tank.

7.) Over sterilization
It is possible if the above mentioned is not considered,if a very strong UV is being used. Another way to control sterilization is theUtilization in hours per day. Just run the UV on a timer.

8.) Observations I made by use of UV
Clearer water
Better and more vibrant colors
Better Polyp expansion
ORP increased
Skimmer performance increased
Slightly Higher PH
Less use of Activated carbon
Healthier looking corals of course
Less to no issues with diseases of all kind (knock onwood)
Less issues with Algaes of all kind that spore throughthe water column
I can safely pop bubble algae, lol


I guess I covered most of the important stuff here,however read through the link above, that has very valuable info in there.

-Andre
 
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By the way, all typos are caused by the MARSH forum software ;-)
Not sure why but it screwed the format here and there.

-Andre
 

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Awesome article Andre! Very very good. Thanks for taking the time to write that up. And yes, Marsh site does that to me too. I have to go back and edit my posts almost all the time to fix that.
 
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Nice write up Andre!!!
I put my UV online back when I was battling Dinoflagellets last year and It was a major help beating Ostreopsis type for me. It did nothing for Amphidinium however since this type does not go into the water column. It goes into the sand at night.
The bulb recently went out 3 weeks ago and I was notified Immediately by New type APEX with individual outlet power monitoring. I received a replacement bulb in a few days but as an experiment, I have not put It back online just to see if the Dinos come back or to see if I can spot any changes. I'm planning to leave it off for a month. So far no reacurrance of Dinos but I can see a big difference in reduction of visual water clarity and APEX ORP readings. Also I have had very minimal bubble algae for a year. So little I have to really look for it and only very tiny bubbles, but I've seen a very small increase since UV has been offline so I'm sure its having an effect.
I also was just running it at night for 8 hrs and ORP was always higher in direct relation to when the UV was on. All inline with your write up:thumb:.
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Great write up Andre. Your input is always appreciated.
 

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Thanks for the info excellent write up , I think the UV sterilizer bring so much I have always use one except in nano tanks because I can't fit the big one I have in it.

my favorite brands in order are Aqua UV , TMC , emperor aquatics .
 

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Just put UV on tank last Friday , But think I have to little flow thru it , it has not made a real difference , water is good and clear from front but still a little haze looking from side it Vecton 300 16 watt on 90 gallon , I was thinking lower flow more dwell time better sterilization. Am I wrong here.
 

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Great write-up Andre. I've been using UV for 4 years now and I appreciate the benefits of it.

I pulled the post from my build thread as it stands relevant in the conversation here. It's all about flow and appropriately sizing your UV to your system for optimal results.

[quote name="billw" post=437186]ATX - What flow rate do you run through that sterilizer?[/QUOTE]
Bill, below is an excerpt of my post on the Austin forum discussing exposure levels for ich. Ideally, you want 3x turnover per hour of water at the calculated exposure level needed for your tank. I think I calculated mine at 250-300 gph so that's what I run through my system.

So, I wanted to bring this discussion back to light as I am contemplating some things during my more extensive research into ich sterilization with UV.

It started when I ran across an article on the Emperor Aquatics brand of UV sterilizers, basically the main competing company of UV sterilizers to the product I own, the AquaUV sterilizer. Both are highly regarded for their performance and customer support and are considered the better UV sterilizers in the industry. What struck me as odd is the higher recommended exposures recommended for killing marine protists by Emperor Aquatics.

Here's what the two companies suggested for exposure levels to kill marine protists:

MODEL Exposure GPH
57-watt AquaUV 90,000 uW/cm2 1066
50-watt Emperor Aquatics 180,000 uW/cm2 ~300

That's 2x the recommended level of AquaUV! So that made me do some more research and found that the marine ich kill exposure of 336,000 uW/cm2 is mainly an extrapolated number from freshwater ich kill exposure of 100,000 uW/cm2. Awesome! Soft science!
doh.gif


Well, that's the best I have so I'll run with it, which basically means I need to only run ~300 gph through the UV sterilizer, instead of the 1066 gph recommended by the manufacturer.

Great reference on ich:
FA164/FA164: Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot Disease) in Fish

Chart I found for reference... no idea of the source though:
feb6f90886efa349746bffa92ae9d222.jpg
"

Here's another excerpt discussion on reef2reef I did on there as well.

JPSika08,

You have a 150-watt HO Emperor you plan to use on a 300-gallon total water volume tank. Emperor suggests for killing marine protists (ich), you would need an exposure of 180,000 µWsec/cm2 running at 840 GPH to do that.****

According to research by the University of Florida:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

"Use of ultraviolet (UV) sterilization to kill theronts has been suggested, based on research involving Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (freshwater "ich"). The recommended UV dose for Ichthyophthirius theronts is 100,000 µWsec/cm2 (Hoffman 1974). However, UV doses required for Cryptocaryon irritans are anecdotal or extrapolated, and range from 280,000 µWsec/cm2 (industry numbers) to 800,000 µWsec/cm2(Colorni and Burgess 1997)."

So the extrapolated saltwater ich exposure needed to kill it with UV is anywhere from 280,000 to 800,000 µWsec/cm2. I've run with 336,000 µWsec/cm2 because I pulled that from a chart I saw many years ago for an exposure level to kill marine ich.

So to adjust Emperor's GPH from the 840 GPH needed for 180,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure to almost double the exposure suggested at 336,000 µWsec/cm2:

336,000 µWsec/cm2 ÷ 180,000 µWsec/cm2 = 1.87
840 GPH ÷ 1.87 = ~450 GPH

Running your UV at 450 GPH will effectively kill marine ich protists going through your 150-watt UV unit. The problem is most recommend at least a 3x turnover per hour for UV to be effective. Basically, the 450 GPH will kill any ich that goes through your UV, but if you don't have it turn over the tank volume at least 3x/hour, you're not killing enough of them to make a true impact to the population. For 3x turnover of your 300-gallon system, you need at least 900 GPH. So effectively, believe it or not, your unit is actually half the size it needs to be for your system as you're only running 450 GPH through it.

Again, these aren't hard rules of thumb. The 3x turnover is not a hard rule, just a suggested rule. The 280,000 µWsec/cm2 - 800,000 µWsec/cm2 extrapolated marine ich exposure value is not a hard line either, especially since it's just extrapolated from a freshwater ich exposure dose.

I just wanted to do the calculation for you to let you know where you stand and to give you comparison to suggested industry rules-of-thumb. Your own application and your intended purpose will help you decide what you really need to do. Just trying to help out a fellow hobbyist.

Sorry I'm just dumping info but don't have time today to do a full explanation/write-up.
 
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The Marsh site always pulls the html tags for me and I used to go back through and delete them all to clean it up. Then I realized if I just went back to edit the post but didn't change anything and clicked save, it would remove all the html tags and breaks it added back in.
 
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THX to everyone for taking the time and giving feedback ;-)
That is appreciated and motivating to continue the "Thriving reef series", lol.

Special thanks to ATX, first for helping me out with some supporting links he gave me and sharing his experience while I was recently diving deeper into the UV method to better understand the implications.
Honestly in the past I did it just because a Pro-Reefer told me to, but had hard time to figure it all out why it is as it is.

Also thx to ATX for sharing the post, I was hoping he will do share that here, so thx again.

Generally, most tanks do not really truly need it, but there will be the day when the tank is matured, this piece of equipment can be a life saver.
Anyways, it is in my opinion a very valuable addition for the overall health of the reef.

-Andre
 
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However, the subject of how much flow is needed to achieve standard sterilization for prevention is difficult and system depending.

I noticed that if I turn down the flow through the UV unit to the point that the ORP curve instantly goes up after firing up the unit, then I have reached the point of where the UV comes in effect.
The curve characteristics how quick ORP will rise can then also be used to indicate if UV dwelling time is too aggressive.
If it goes straight and sharp up to the roof, that might not be good.
As everything in the hobby, things should go slowly ;-)

Not sure if ATX can share some experience on this subject as well.
Nevertheless, not everyone has the luxury of an ORP probe.

-Andre
 
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Nice write up Andre!!!
I put my UV online back when I was battling Dinoflagellets last year and It was a major help beating Ostreopsis type for me. It did nothing for Amphidinium however since this type does not go into the water column. It goes into the sand at night.
The bulb recently went out 3 weeks ago and I was notified Immediately by New type APEX with individual outlet power monitoring. I received a replacement bulb in a few days but as an experiment, I have not put It back online just to see if the Dinos come back or to see if I can spot any changes. I'm planning to leave it off for a month. So far no reacurrance of Dinos but I can see a big difference in reduction of visual water clarity and APEX ORP readings. Also I have had very minimal bubble algae for a year. So little I have to really look for it and only very tiny bubbles, but I've seen a very small increase since UV has been offline so I'm sure its having an effect.
I also was just running it at night for 8 hrs and ORP was always higher in direct relation to when the UV was on. All inline with your write up:thumb:.
attachment.php

THX for sharing your ORP curve!!!!!
Would be great if I can see some more ORP curves.

Random note, I guess it's a bit high, means you might run too clean.

Rule of thumb I "heard" is:
Lower end 250
Higher end 500
Ideal average 350-380

I have seen the scavenger bacteria dragged me down to 220-230 in the past.
The latest UV adjustment last night brought the tank up from 260, slowly to 290, expecting to hit 300 sometime today.

-Andre
 

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However, the subject of how much flow is needed to achieve standard sterilization for prevention is difficult and system depending.

I noticed that if I turn down the flow through the UV unit to the point that the ORP curve instantly goes up after firing up the unit, then I have reached the point of where the UV comes in effect.
The curve characteristics how quick ORP will rise can then also be used to indicate if UV dwelling time is too aggressive.
If it goes straight and sharp up to the roof, that might not be good.
As everything in the hobby, things should go slowly ;-)

Not sure if ATX can share some experience on this subject as well.
Nevertheless, not everyone has the luxury of an ORP probe.

-Andre
I've never spent the time to watch my ORP readings in relation to use of the UV sterilizer. It sounds interesting and any feedback you can provide is going to be very valuable.
 
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I've never spent the time to watch my ORP readings in relation to use of the UV sterilizer. It sounds interesting and any feedback you can provide is going to be very valuable.

ATX, would be great to see in your system, what the ORP curve looks like if you turn off the UV for a day or 2 ;-)
What ORP you have in average?

-Andre
 

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ATX, would be great to see in your system, what the ORP curve looks like if you turn off the UV for a day or 2 ;-)
What ORP you have in average?

-Andre
I never look at it but here you go! Avg is 270.

4d15379c687a3322c812d49e5306c71e.jpg


I'll shut it off this weekend and report back.
 
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Guys,
I thought to bump this really good thread, since many of you seem to have an issue this year with unexplainable STN/RTN.
Well the UV subject helps to prevent this crap, however the killing or better bacteria decrease will need to be achieved with low temps.

Read it, brings it to the point and hopefully makes you aware of the danger of bacteria in Reef tanks.

http://www.marsh-reef.org/marine-an...cross-vibrio-bacteria-sps-rtn.html#post439324

-Andre
 

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Wow, I never paid much attention to ORP either, but this thread made me take a look at mine. My 3 month chart shows the average at 380-400 and I run a UV. So I guess that's good citing the ranges posted above right? I don't think I want to turn it off for a few days to see what happens though.

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THX for sharing your ORP curve!!!!!
Would be great if I can see some more ORP curves.

Random note, I guess it's a bit high, means you might run too clean.

Rule of thumb I "heard" is:
Lower end 250
Higher end 500
Ideal average 350-380

I have seen the scavenger bacteria dragged me down to 220-230 in the past.
The latest UV adjustment last night brought the tank up from 260, slowly to 290, expecting to hit 300 sometime today.

-Andre

Update:
Since my UV was already down I decided to experiment bit. After 2 months of UV being offline, I have seen a significant increase in bubble algae. Nothing to be worried over but an increase none the less. Especially increase in bubble size. All I used to have was tiny bubbles. I got some bigger bubbles in the last month or so.
ORP only dropped an average of 15 points though. I was surprised it was so little drop. It must be because I'm running to clean as it is.
I also must admit. I was getting lazy in testing for Phosphate and Nitrate since my tank has been very steady in growth and coloration. I tested yesterday and found the results much lower than I like. Nitrate was at the 1ppm and Phosphate was undetectable. My Nitrates had been steady in the 5 ppm and PO4 0.03 ranges for months before this experiment which is where I like to keep them since I have a mixed reef. I've added a lot of corals in the last 6 months that seem to be taking up those nutrients now.
So to recap:

1. I've increased in bubble algae with less nutrients in the tank. A clear indication to me the absence of UV is causing this. My Nitrates and Phosphates have been kept in different ranges over the last 2 years and had not influenced my bubble algae growth much while UV was online.
2. Water is hazier while UV offline.
3. I was running to clean so my fish are about to get happier with more feedings. Hopefully I can feed enough not to need to dose Nitrate and Phosphates.
4. The best thing I was happy to see with this experiment was Dinoflagellates are still not present after UV went offline. This was my final confirmation that they are truly "gone".
5. Absence of UV in my tank is noticeable so it's coming back online soon.
 
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I have read that using UV raises temp. of tank. Can you confirm/deny? If it does by how much?

It does raise temp a bit. I'm sure the size of the UV and size of tank it's on has a lot to do with exactly how much.
I only run mine 8 hrs at night and don't notice a temp rise that way since it's offset to the heat of my lighting. But if memory serves me right, my 18 watt UV raised my 125 gallon tanks temp about half of a degree when on during the day.
 
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