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Treating Ich v. QT tank options

Tenny

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Location
League City
#1
Need some guidance on this... I kind of think I am over-acting to fix problems which may be making things worse. I've watched @Reefahholic videos but I don't have a Hanna checker nor do I have copper. Yesterday I hit the few close stores looking for the Hanna but didn't find it. I know FJW and some of the other sponsors are more likely to have it just getting up into the city is difficult with work schedule.

Thursday Evening:
Bought a very healthy looking Powder Brown Tang. No signs of ich or parasites, but given the nature of this hobby I expected it to have some disease.

Floated bag for 30 minutes, then acclimated it to the QT water. After that I did a safety stop bath (45 minutes of Formalin and then 45 minutes of Methylene Blue). The fish was very calm during the process and showed no signs of stress. Following the dip I moved it into the QT tank (10g). It ate brine shrimp just fine.

Friday Afternoon: I noticed his fins were showing signs of ich, but it wasn't very "major" so I continued with things as normal and decided I would do the tank transfer method to remove the ich. I went to Petco and bought another 10g tank.

Friday Night: He was completely covered with Ich. It looked pretty bad but he was still acting normal, swimming fine etc. So I read online some suggested to do a fresh water dip as it would provide quick relief to him. So I fed him then did a 5 minute FW dip. During the dip he swam around a lot, but didn't play dead like a lot of the videos I've seen before.

Friday Night (2 hours later): No sign of Ich dropping off, so I decided to utilize the only "medicine" I have on hand Hikari Ich-X (low dosage formalin (<5%), Methanol (<2%), Malachite green (<0.1%)). I didn't try to feed him at this point because I figured he'd been through so much. Also did about a 30% water change prior to the dosage to clean out any garbage in the tank.

Saturday Morning (now as of this post): A lot of the Ich has fallen off and has accumulated on the bottom of the tank. He looks like his skin looks pretty beat up from the Ich. While the lights were off he was just kinda swimming in a circle but as the lights came on he became more active. I just gave him some brine shrimp and he devoured it.

So now I'm at the point where I don't know the direction to go from here:
-Do I try to get something for the sores on the skin (like Acriflavine MS / alternative that can be found at Petco/Petsmart) or am I causing additional stress and just need to calm down and let things run it's course?
-Do I continue Ich-X Treatment? (It recommends 1 dose every 24 hours for four days, but in severe cases it can be done every 8 hours).
-Do I switch to TTM?
 

webster1234

Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Location
Pearland
#2
I'm in Pearland. Come up here and get some Chloroquine Phosphate from me. I will explain to you how to use it and he will be fine. Text me at eight three two-473-4380. I'll be home all day doing tank maintenance so should be around. I'm in the old part near 35/518 if you are in League City.

CP is easy to use. It's a one and done treatment. No TTM needed. There is a sticky on here somewhere about it if you want to read up on it. Or Humblefish has a great sticky on R2R about it. Very informative. I used to do TTM exclusively but had some ich slip past.

Since I have started using CP, I haven't had a problem. And it's way easier to use than copper. A lot of the ich treatments out there that you can buy (not sure what is in ich-X), don't work. Almost always, if it says "reef safe," you can bet that it's probably snake oil. Get the real stuff and do it right.

BTW, good job quarantining your fish!!!!!!!!!
 
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Reefahholic

Reef Junkie T.V.
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Location
League City
#3
Sounds like Velvet to me. Get over to Webster’s and grab that CP if you can as it doesn’t need a ramp period. You’ll be therapeutic at the initial dose.

If the fish gets covered again before you can get the medication, transfer the fish to reduce the numbers and FW dip the fish. Or do a bath in Formalin, Acriflavine, etc.

You can use the same tank and just put the fish in another container while you clean the main tank with bleach. All this can be down while the fish are in the bath. After bleaching...rinse the tank out really well and then put the fish back in. If you can get the CP quickly you won’t need to worry about the transfer. Tangs are stronger fish and can typically tolerate ICH or Velvet much longer than most other fish.
 

Tenny

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Location
League City
#4
Sounds like Velvet to me. Get over to Webster’s and grab that CP if you can as it doesn’t need a ramp period. You’ll be therapeutic at the initial dose.

If the fish gets covered again before you can get the medication, transfer the fish to reduce the numbers and FW dip the fish. Or do a bath in Formalin, Acriflavine, etc.

You can use the same tank and just put the fish in another container while you clean the main tank with bleach. All this can be down while the fish are in the bath. After bleaching...rinse the tank out really well and then put the fish back in. If you can get the CP quickly you won’t need to worry about the transfer. Tangs are stronger fish and can typically tolerate ICH or Velvet much longer than most other fish.
Yup went over and picked up some CP already. Sadly I had to run back to work so I didn't get a chance to start using it yet, but I will tonight after I get done working.

Re: Velvet, It looked like Ich to me, they were good size, but at the speed it took over I could see it potentially being velvet. Thankfully CP will take care of both.
 

Tenny

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Location
League City
#6
If they were bigger, it was probably ICH.

Could you count how many spots?
If I was smart enough to take a picture I probably could have. With him swimming around id lose count before hand.

I decided to just swap him into the other tank with new equipment and add cp there. That way I could bleach the one tank and be confident I get rid of all the bleach.
 

Tenny

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Location
League City
#7
Ok... I'm going to agree it is probably velvet. He looked similar time the purple tang on this page last night: TANK TERROR: Identifying and Treating Marine Velvet - REEFEDITION

So I guess doing the freshwater dip them low dosage formalin was good based on that pages instructions.

Tonight I didn't do a fw dip... Should I just stick with the cp and not stress him out anymore or should I do another few dip tomorrow?
 

Tenny

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Location
League City
#8
Made it through the night, he looks better, but is acting more lethargic. He didn't eat last night when I tried to feed him prior to the transfer and didn't eat this morning. I Just vac'd out his poop, the food and the white "powder". I'm guessing that's the velvet / ich (although I agree I think it's velvet at this point). I read that Velvet thrives in bright conditions so I am keeping the lights off to help him out (probably good to reduce his stress anyways).

I figure I should upload some pics though...

Thursday Night at the LFS
thursdaynightatlfs.jpg
Friday Morning, this is the first sign I noticed of an issue.
fridaymorning.jpg
Saturday Morning after the FW Dip and running low dosage formalin (Ich-X)
saturday morning.jpg
Sunday Morning "Powder":
sundaypowder.jpg
Couple shots of his current state:
sundaymorning.jpg
 

Attachments

webster1234

Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Location
Pearland
#9
If he is in the CP now, further infestation shouldn't happen. The question is, can he survive with what is currently on him for the next 3 days until it falls off. If he was lethargic and not eating before you put him in the CP, it is the parasite and not the CP that is suppressing his appetite.

A fw dip might give him some immediate relief so I wouldn't be afraid to try it if he is completely covered in velvet. Both the parasite and the fw dip will cause stress. Will either prove fatal? Who knows. Not seeing the fish in person, that's gonna have to be your judgement call.

If you do a fw dip (not sure if you did this before or not), make sure it is pH adjusted and matches the temp in your tank. pH is adjusted by adding a tablespoon or so of baking soda to the dip water. You will need a pH test kit because your are trying to "match" the pH of the tank he is currently in.

Temp and pH shock are big stressors for fish. Also, if you have some methylene blue, add that to the water. The dark color helps calm the fish and soothes the skin where the parasites were attached.

The fw dip supposedly causes the parasites to burst because of the rapid change in the osmotic pressure. That might give him some instant relief and the CP will keep them from coming back.

Most LFS run a low dose of copper in their tanks to suppress but not eradicate the parasites. That is why fish can look great at the store but then become infested with parasites shortly after you bring them home. That is why it is so so so so so so so important to have a quarantine process set up and ready when your new fish gets home. it only takes ONE to nuke your whole tank. (and I am saying this for the benefit of others who might happen to read this. Clearly you did the right thing)
 
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Tenny

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Location
League City
#12
If he is in the CP now, further infestation shouldn't happen. The question is, can he survive with what is currently on him for the next 3 days until it falls off. If he was lethargic and not eating before you put him in the CP, it is the parasite and not the CP that is suppressing his appetite.

A fw dip might give him some immediate relief so I wouldn't be afraid to try it if he is completely covered in velvet. Both the parasite and the fw dip will cause stress. Will either prove fatal? Who knows. Not seeing the fish in person, that's gonna have to be your judgement call.

If you do a fw dip (not sure if you did this before or not), make sure it is pH adjusted and matches the temp in your tank. pH is adjusted by adding a tablespoon or so of baking soda to the dip water. You will need a pH test kit because your are trying to "match" the pH of the tank he is currently in.

Temp and pH shock are big stressors for fish. Also, if you have some methylene blue, add that to the water. The dark color helps calm the fish and soothes the skin where the parasites were attached.

The fw dip supposedly causes the parasites to burst because of the rapid change in the osmotic pressure. That might give him some instant relief and the CP will keep them from coming back.

Most LFS run a low dose of copper in their tanks to suppress but not eradicate the parasites. That is why fish can look great at the store but then become infested with parasites shortly after you bring them home. That is why it is so so so so so so so important to have a quarantine process set up and ready when your new fish gets home. it only takes ONE to nuke your whole tank. (and I am saying this for the benefit of others who might happen to read this. Clearly you did the right thing)
I agree it's the parasite not the CP causing his lack of energy.

Are you suggesting adding the methylene blue to the water with CP or to the FW dip water?

Yeah I am very glad I QT'd him prior. I'm pretty sure they are running Copper in the system and that's why he looked great compared to within 24 hours!

I haven't done a dip since adding the CP, still haven't decided if I want to do it or not.
 

Reefahholic

Reef Junkie T.V.
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Location
League City
#15
I agree it's the parasite not the CP causing his lack of energy.

Are you suggesting adding the methylene blue to the water with CP or to the FW dip water?

Yeah I am very glad I QT'd him prior. I'm pretty sure they are running Copper in the system and that's why he looked great compared to within 24 hours!

I haven't done a dip since adding the CP, still haven't decided if I want to do it or not.
Since we knows it’s Velvet (obvious due to the wounds and wound pattern) I’d do Acriflavine baths daily for 90 mins or every other day rather than FW dips. This will help heal the wounds. ABX will also keep him form getting a secondary bacterial infection which is quite common after Velvet leaves all the open wounds. Feeding foad soaked Metroplex will help as well for anything internal that could possibly weaken him. Draw a line on the tank and keep up with the top off so that the medications stay in range.
 

Tenny

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Location
League City
#19
Since we knows it’s Velvet (obvious due to the wounds and wound pattern) I’d do Acriflavine baths daily for 90 mins or every other day rather than FW dips. This will help heal the wounds. ABX will also keep him form getting a secondary bacterial infection which is quite common after Velvet leaves all the open wounds. Feeding foad soaked Metroplex will help as well for anything internal that could possibly weaken him. Draw a line on the tank and keep up with the top off so that the medications stay in range.
Line is already drawn :)
Suggestions on ABX?
Will start doing metroplexed food this week.
 
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