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Algae Problem.....and others (1 Viewer)

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RR-MAN

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What I mean is by removing the fuge/sump with sand/rock/macro you removed the good bacteria/organisms (microfauna) which caused an imbalance in the tank.

Looking at your pics there could be more to the story...test phosphates and nitrates and also source of ro/di water. That's some serious algae. GL>>>




What do you mean "removing of microfauna?"


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malira

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What I mean is by removing the fuge/sump with sand/rock/macro you removed the good bacteria/organisms (microfauna) which caused an imbalance in the tank.Looking at your pics there could be more to the story...test phosphates and nitrates and also source of ro/di water. That's some serious algae. GL>>>
Removing the bits of cheato and other crud the fuge was the last thing I did. It could be the reason for the explanation of GHA but not the cause. All this algae was there before. I need to look at phosphates. I have more Hanna tests coming in. I do have to dose nitrates. I test every 1 to 2 days and dose as needed. I keep between 5 and 10. My return flow has decreased to around 450. This weekend I am changing out the return hose. It should boost it to over 700. Where I want it.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
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RR-MAN

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If I remember correctly you buy your ro/di water? Regardless from where get an ro/di unit man
[emoji6][emoji6][emoji6]


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malira

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If I remember correctly you buy your ro/di water? Regardless from where get an ro/di unit man
[emoji6][emoji6][emoji6]


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I have a RODI system. The filters are about 2 months old. TDS is 0.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

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malira

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I just got back from Andre's. The tank is impressive. We had a nice long talk and he imparted a lot of helpful knowledge.

My potassium was low and my redfield ratio is out of wack. So my phosphates are low. My bacteria diversity is lacking. Andre helped get me started with some products and the in information to keep it going and the tank in good working order. I will keep posting numbers and pics to show the progress.

Water clarity before.
e9a052066aefff0e1927e73a772f7dd4.jpg


Water clarity after adding stuff.
I'm sure this is only temporary.
240f9f3c0d09ecec31587dbde851c4f1.jpg


Thank you Andre.

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Mark L.

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Sounds like Andre got you headed in the right direction Mario! Do you mind sharing what products you are going to use? Im sure it would help a lot of members who may be in your situation. Im interested as well. May need to increase my potassium.

So I'm guessing you will dose potassium, phosphates, and bacteria? How are your nitrates?
 
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malira

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Sounds like Andre got you headed in the right direction Mario! Do you mind sharing what products you are going to use? Im sure it would help a lot of members who may be in your situation. Im interested as well. May need to increase my potassium.

So I'm guessing you will dose potassium, phosphates, and bacteria? How are your nitrates?
Andre gave me some biodigest because to help with my bacterial diversity. Andre explained the redfield ratio. So to help with my phosphates I've started dosing Phytofeast. I will lower my nitrates to 2 to 3 and raise my phosphates to .20 to .30. Brightwell potassium powder. To keep potassium around 400 to 410. And change from BRS kalkwasser to Brightwell kalkwasser 2+, it has trace elements as well as alk and calcium. I will get off vibrant and use socks.

So keep redfield ratio in check.
Raise potassium to 400.
Promote bacterial diversity.

I will know by tomorrow if I'm on the right track because my alk will start dropping. If the redfield ratio is correct that all the processes kick back in and start consuming the alk.

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Mark L.

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Good info thanks man! I need to look into the potassium powder. I usually dose ZEOvit K Balance. Wonder which is better. I'll have to check.
 

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Hey Malira, and other interested readers on this.

So after talking about the tank and what Malira did so far in the past, the tank basically sounded very likely starved to death by lack of Phosphates. Sounds harsh but even the Algae did not look healthy lol.

So, interesting was the fact that he has to dose Nitrates (Diesel brew) to maintain the Nitrate level somewhere 5-8 or so. All good, however he does not use any of the methods to run a SULNS ;-)
Means monoculture of bacteria, and I found out the only bacterial fuel he doses here and there is Amino acids (Fuel).
So the biology is powerful to keep the Nitrates low, so I expected extremely low Po4 !!!

Just measured the ULR range it it came out with 2ppb means almost nothing on Po4 left, this reading is lower than Po4 in any dry food.
So my gut feeling was basically right.
Diagnose - Tank starvation

ASAP Corrective action,
I gave him 100 Reef Nutrition Phyto Feast, which contains quite good amounts of Po4 ;-)
That actually (50ml right away) made the water cloudy.

Then 2 ampules of Biodigest
Recommend to keep dosing 1 ampule per week or biweekly

Stop any Aminos for now, corals should reach their natural color first before we start enhancing colors ;-)

Then Nitrates reduction to 2,5 / 3 ppm to allow less PO4 level within the redfield ratio.
That will be the most challenging part of soon future.

He will get some Test kits like the ULR Phosphorus checker and Potassium test kit.
Potassium was down to 370-380, and I gave him a boost of my solutions for correction.
Also I recommend to have the Brightwell Potassion dry powder on hand ($10!!! last a year)

Now we need to see how the tank will get back on track and stable.
With the returning nutrient managment in the right direction, he will experience that a lot of other processes will start as well.
Means he will need to look for soon Alk, Ca and MG as well as Potassium occasionally.

I guess the root cause is identified in this case which is quite often seen these days !!!!!!
In the past we had issues with high nutrients, now we have issues with low nutrients, lol


There is more to write we talked about, and I believe this is a milestone now for this tank.
Plans for future will be likely to return back to Chaeto sump as soon as needed.
Po4 consumption will be high in the beginning until the demand goes down from natural processes.

-Andre
 

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Thanks Andre and Malira! Good thread and thank you two for sharing. Lots of people can learn some things from a thread like this. I would never think to check for potassium, just the big 3 and nitrate/phosphate. I know I found it interesting.
 

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Thanks Andre and Malira! Good thread and thank you two for sharing. Lots of people can learn some things from a thread like this. I would never think to check for potassium, just the big 3 and nitrate/phosphate. I know I found it interesting.

No biggy !!!!!
You know when you got everything like you want it.........I can tell you another one to look out for ;-) ..................................
 

FarmerTy

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Just my own thoughts for a different viewpoint and approach. The growth of hair algae on the rocks scream high phosphates to me.

So here is my summary of what I feel happened in your system. Alk overdose, death of corals, nutrients spiked because of the deaths, growth of algae... then cleaned sump out, which unfortunately spiked nutrient levels even more and also removed a potential source of removal with the chaeto, so algae got worst or at least didn't get better.

That brings us to now. I feel you have a big phosphate issue. I think a slow introduction of GFO to start removal phosphates from your system and the continued water changes will get you in the right direction. I'd add 2-3 tuxedo urchins to help eradicate the algae that has already rooted itself. With continued removal via urchins and manual removal, combined with water changes and GFO use, you'll be staring at a nice clean looking tank in no time.

Now you're probably wondering why I assume a phosphate issue instead of a phosphate deficiency like Andre's theory. To me, if you see algae growth in the tank, there definitely is phosphate in that system. And to see it grow so prolifically on the rocks, tells me there is bound phosphates in the rock. So why does he read 2ppb on a Hanna meter you ask? Isn't that a deficiency? My answer, no, because of the presence of lots of algae. The reason it read 2 ppb is because most of it was uptaken directly by the algae, leaving the water sample to show hardly any phosphate concentration.

I've never used a regular bacterial dosing scheme so you could argue I have a very homogenous population of bacteria in my system. I'm going to say that has not been detrimental to my system based on the results I've had so far with it so personally, I don't put much weight into monoculture theories. I've also don't do water changes so even more reason why my bacterial population could be very homogenous.

I agree nitrate level should be raised to about 5-8 ppm and whatever way you can get it there is ideal, as long as the often associative phosphate level increase that comes with it is managed with GFO.

My phosphate level is consistently in the 0.03 ppm or less range. My last Triton test gave me a 0 ppm result for phosphate. My personal opinion is yes, phosphates are needed for certain biological processes but very little is needed and that little bit is easily added via feeding daily. So adding more as you can understand from my point-of-view seems like a bad decision. Average levels in surface waters are 0.005 ppm of phosphate. Trust me, your corals aren't starving from not having phosphates, they are starving from not having enough nitrates in general, not specifically regarding your tank Malira.

For your tank in particular, I think nipping the algae in the bud by adding tuxedo urchins and running GFO will help your system return to a more balanced nutrient level and your acros will respond with better colors and general health.

At the end of the day, this is just my opinion. I don't aim to say anybody else's opinion is not correct or invalid. Just sharing what I've observed over the years and how I see the situation that Malira has laid in front of us with my version of a viable solution. In the end, there are a million different ways to run a successful reef tank.
 
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malira

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No biggy !!!!!
You know when you got everything like you want it.........I can tell you another one to look out for ;-) ..................................
I can't wait to get to that point.

Andre my son asked me to thank you for your help with his tank.

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malira

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Just my own thoughts for a different viewpoint and approach. The growth of hair algae on the rocks scream high phosphates to me.

So here is my summary of what I feel happened in your system. Alk overdose, death of corals, nutrients spiked because of the deaths, growth of algae... then cleaned sump out, which unfortunately spiked nutrient levels even more and also removed a potential source of removal with the chaeto, so algae got worst or at least didn't get better.

That brings us to now. I feel you have a big phosphate issue. I think a slow introduction of GFO to start removal phosphates from your system and the continued water changes will get you in the right direction. I'd add 2-3 tuxedo urchins to help eradicate the algae that has already rooted itself. With continued removal via urchins and manual removal, combined with water changes and GFO use, you'll be staring at a nice clean looking tank in no time.

Now you're probably wondering why I assume a phosphate issue instead of a phosphate deficiency like Andre's theory. To me, if you see algae growth in the tank, there definitely is phosphate in that system. And to see it grow so prolifically on the rocks, tells me there is bound phosphates in the rock. So why does he read 2ppb on a Hanna meter you ask? Isn't that a deficiency? My answer, no, because of the presence of lots of algae. The reason it read 2 ppb is because most of it was uptaken directly by the algae, leaving the water sample to show hardly any phosphate concentration.

I've never used a regular bacterial dosing scheme so you could argue I have a very homogenous population of bacteria in my system. I'm going to say that has not been detrimental to my system based on the results I've had so far with it so personally, I don't put much weight into monoculture theories. I've also don't do water changes so even more reason why my bacterial population could be very homogenous.

I agree nitrate level should be raised to about 5-8 ppm and whatever way you can get it there is ideal, as long as the often associative phosphate level increase that comes with it is managed with GFO.

My phosphate level is consistently in the 0.03 ppm or less range. My last Triton test gave me a 0 ppm result for phosphate. My personal opinion is yes, phosphates are needed for certain biological processes but very little is needed and that little bit is easily added via feeding daily. So adding more as you can understand from my point-of-view seems like a bad decision. Average levels in surface waters are 0.005 ppm of phosphate. Trust me, your corals aren't starving from not having phosphates, they are starving from not having enough nitrates in general, not specifically regarding your tank Malira.

For your tank in particular, I think nipping the algae in the bud by adding tuxedo urchins and running GFO will help your system return to a more balanced nutrient level and your acros will respond with better colors and general health.

At the end of the day, this is just my opinion. I don't aim to say anybody else's opinion is not correct or invalid. Just sharing what I've observed over the years and how I see the situation that Malira has laid in front of us with my version of a viable solution. In the end, there are a million different ways to run a successful reef tank.
Thank you for your perspective. My nitrates are 5 to 10 consistently. If they drop below 5 I dose nitrates. The chaeto was breaking down, falling apart and going away.
Your advice is sound and sounds very much like what I've read and tried to practice. It hasn't worked for me.

I believe Andre is right with the totality of my tanks issues and problems.

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No problem at all Malira. Hopefully it rights the ship for you!

ATX, as you know I respect your opinion as a pro a lot, and have you on my short dial list when issues occur ;-)
Malira shared a lot of info and history verbally that he could not mention before and things he likely did not realize the importance of those lil hints.

Let's see, my strategy is for the moment to get the biology back to normal a bit and then I gave him a few other things to look at soon, in perspective to his setup on the equipment side.

-Andre
 

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ATX, as you know I respect your opinion as a pro a lot, and have you on my short dial list when issues occur ;-)
Malira shared a lot of info and history verbally that he could not mention before and things he likely did not realize the importance of those lil hints.

Let's see, my strategy is for the moment to get the biology back to normal a bit and then I gave him a few other things to look at soon, in perspective to his setup on the equipment side.

-Andre

You're a good man for helping out your fellow reefers Andre. No worries at all. There's a good amount of great advice out there and mine may not always be the best fit or even good advice at that! [emoji6]
 

Mark L.

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That's what is so awesome about this hobby. Two differing opinions and neither is wrong. Two ways to achieve the same results. We may even find that neither works for Mario's tank and more adjustments need to be made. Good stuff guys. I'm sure Andre touch on it but after seeing your pics I think some good ol fashioned elbow greese and husbandry would help a lot with your tank also. Good step forward removing the sand from your sump. I'd keep going with scraping the walls, sucking out detritus, and just making your sump and equipment clean.

Same with your tank. Use a powerhead to blow all the detritus out of the rocks right before a water change. Make sure to clean your filter socks after. Your tank looks like it may have some "old tank syndrome" going on. Even your frag racks should be sparkling clean. Every little bit helps when it comes to ridding your tank of algae.
 

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That's what is so awesome about this hobby. Two differing opinions and neither is wrong. Two ways to achieve the same results. We may even find that neither works for Mario's tank and more adjustments need to be made. Good stuff guys. I'm sure Andre touch on it but after seeing your pics I think some good ol fashioned elbow greese and husbandry would help a lot with your tank also. Good step forward removing the sand from your sump. I'd keep going with scraping the walls, sucking out detritus, and just making your sump and equipment clean.

Great point Mark. Everyone's tank is a little different and all of us do things a little different. That is what is so cool about reefing. There are all kinds of ways to keep successful sps, lps, and mixed systems, and no one method is really the gospel. There is a lot of info on the larger national forums, but apparently an attitude like mine will get you banned!! Lol. This site is a nice change from all that. Thanks to all for sharing and contributing....
 
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