How to fight dino, again... (1 Viewer)

[Matyas]

Update: Its not looking good.
Last week it looked like the dinos were receding with only a little bit on the back glass and corners. However, over the past few days it looks as if they are spreading now. I see strings all over the tank. Im starting to freak out. Acros still showing polyps and one is growing very fast, but i feel danger is close. Snails and urchin arent dying so i hope that it isnt toxic
Params
sg 1.024
alk 8.3
cal 420
no3 10
Po4 0.25
Nutrients have reached sufficiently high levels.

 

[RR-MAN]

^^^Sorry to hear that.

My philosophy is different - when I see algae my thinking is water changes/siphoning/ running carbon/GFO or both exporting as much of it as I can.

I still don't understand the logic of increasing nutrients to eradicate dinos.

 

[steveb]

^^^Sorry to hear that.

My philosophy is different - when I see algae my thinking is water changes/siphoning/ running carbon/GFO or both exporting as much of it as I can.

I still don't understand the logic of increasing nutrients to eradicate dinos.

It seems crazy but these things thrive in a low nutrient environment. Conventional wisdom of dropping nitrates/phosphates hasn’t worked for me the two times I have encountered them.

There are many threads with anecdotal evidence. The majority of successes employ increased po4, limited raising of no3, adding biodiversity such as micro algae, hair algae, cyano bacteria, pods, and bacterial dosing. All of that is done in an effort to out compete the dinoflagellates.

Other things that help - GAC for toxins, wet skimming, 1micron filter socks, UV, removing sand, dosing sodium silicate, blacking out to force Dino’s into water column to be skimmed, removed via filter sock, UV.

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[Reefahholic]

It seems crazy but these things thrive in a low nutrient environment. Conventional wisdom of dropping nitrates/phosphates hasn’t worked for me the two times I have encountered them.

There are many threads with anecdotal evidence. The majority of successes employ increased po4, limited raising of no3, adding biodiversity such as micro algae, hair algae, cyano bacteria, pods, and bacterial dosing. All of that is done in an effort to out compete the dinoflagellates.

Other things that help - GAC for toxins, wet skimming, 1micron filter socks, UV, removing sand, dosing sodium silicate, blacking out to force Dino’s into water column to be skimmed, removed via filter sock, UV.

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I couldn't agree with steveb more here. He's right on point.

Matyas....your levels of NO3 and PO4 aren't significantly high IMO. Can you tell me how old your tank is again and if you started with Dry Rock or LR.?


I'll show you want happens sometimes when NO3 and PO4 get depleted and what dosing Nitrates and Phosphates did for me. See pictures below.

BUT.....dosing NO3 can be a difficult learning curve for some including myself. It has a lag time...The key is to dose slowly. Dose...test the next day at same time....then wait 3-4 days and see what effect that dose had on the system. That being said I don't think you need to dose nitrates and your PO4 looks OK. It's not crazy "algae high" just yet. Gotta be careful dosing Phosphates too. I wouldn't recommend anybody do this before the first year unless you've done your homework. It can backfire! Natural is always better and is what I always try to stick to unless there is no other way around it.

Example....right now my NO3 is 12+ and to be honest with you....Nyos test kits are junk after you get over 12. The colors don't match at all. For all I know my NO3 is 50 right now....but I suspect it's around 20-30ppm. So instead of using a denitrification product...I gravel vacced my sand since is not alive.

Just some thoughts.



Before dosing NO3 (Depleted nutrients)



After:

 

[Matyas]

I couldn't agree with steveb more here. He's right on point.

Matyas....your levels of NO3 and PO4 aren't significantly high IMO. Can you tell me how old your tank is again and if you started with Dry Rock or LR.?


I'll show you want happens sometimes when NO3 and PO4 get depleted and what dosing Nitrates and Phosphates did for me. See pictures below.

BUT.....dosing NO3 can be a difficult learning curve for some including myself. It has a lag time...The key is to dose slowly. Dose...test the next day at same time....then wait 3-4 days and see what effect that dose had on the system. That being said I don't think you need to dose nitrates and your PO4 looks OK. It's not crazy "algae high" just yet. Gotta be careful dosing Phosphates too. I wouldn't recommend anybody do this before the first year unless you've done your homework. It can backfire! Natural is always better and is what I always try to stick to unless there is no other way around it.

Example....right now my NO3 is 12+ and to be honest with you....Nyos test kits are junk after you get over 12. The colors don't match at all. For all I know my NO3 is 50 right now....but I suspect it's around 20-30ppm. So instead of using a denitrification product...I gravel vacced my sand since is not alive.

Just some thoughts.



Before dosing NO3 (Depleted nutrients)



After:

Thanks. Wow thats an incredible change! My tank is about 4-5 months old. I started witj cured pukani rock cycled in a trash can. Once the rock was in the tank i seeded it with 2-5 pounds of mature coralline filled live rock. I used about 60lbs total rock. Should i keep raising nutrients?
My dinos seem isolated on the bottom glass and lower area of rock. Nothing near the high flow sticks.

 

[Cody]

I got the dino in my new tank too. Low nutrients for sure. I just don't have enough bioload for the water volume and I'm sure it got introduced from Steve's tank. My current sps tank had about eight of his frags that were suffering plunged right in it and haven't seen a single sign of it yet.

I'm right on board with Steve and reefaholic. I'm so convinced by that theory that I want all the cyano that I can get to throw into this tank. Plus, I'll up the nutrients and probably fish too.

I first thought of this notion after using chemiclean. As soon as you nuke the cyano, dino sets in. Cyano outcompete it and is much easier to deal with. I'm sure others had already made the observation but I wasn't aware of it and started seeing it on my own. I was glad to see that I wasn't the only one that noticed the correlation.

 

[Matyas]

Can cyano grow well in a barebottom tank....?

 

[steveb]

I have cyano growing on plastic frag racks. I see no reason why it couldn’t grow on a bare bottom.


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[zzl630]

75w jebao UV killed my Dino in about 4 days.

 

[Cody]

75w jebao UV killed my Dino in about 4 days.

Are you certain that was the only variable that changed?

 

[steveb]

There are different types. UV is effective on Dino’s in the water column such as Amphidinium but not on some of the others unless you can get them in the water column.


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[Matyas]

I will hold off on the Uv for now. Do yall think it would kill the dinos? They seem to be attached to rock and glass all night

 

[Matyas]

75w jebao UV killed my Dino in about 4 days.

What size tank? What pump did you attach it to?

 

[zzl630]

Are you certain that was the only variable that changed?

No lots of things changed everyday but UV light is the first thing I would do rather than dumping other chemicals. I did start feeding more to bump up the phosphate.

 

[zzl630]

What size tank? What pump did you attach it to?

250 gal with 600 gal/hr pump. There is a long thread on r2r, ppl use microscope to identify which Dino first. I guess I was lucky. But Dino was killing my sps , I needed something quick.

 

[Matyas]

Even with high nutrients my dinos seem to spread. I may consider buying a UV sterilizer. Would it be worth it at this stage? What wattage would work best for 75 gallon tank? Some of these UV sterilizers are wicked expensive!

 

[Matyas]

Water has been tested using handheld TDS meter (0tds), could the dinos be feeding off of something leaching from the bucket i store the water in? Also i run my chaeto fuge 14 hours a day and light leeks throught the bottom of the tank during that period. I will reduce the photoperiod of the chaeto to only when main lights are running. Dinos are the worst. I would hate to lose another battle to these

 

[steveb]

I think they are loving your 10k bulb.


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[Reefahholic]

Thanks. Wow thats an incredible change! My tank is about 4-5 months old. I started witj cured pukani rock cycled in a trash can. Once the rock was in the tank i seeded it with 2-5 pounds of mature coralline filled live rock. I used about 60lbs total rock. Should i keep raising nutrients?
My dinos seem isolated on the bottom glass and lower area of rock. Nothing near the high flow sticks.

Given the numbers you gave I’d wait it out at this point. The numbers are good for a tank 4-5 months old. Dry rock always brings funky stuff in the 2-6 month period. How is your flow? Do you have pics where we can better assess the situation.

 

[steveb]

I have a Hamilton 250w DE 20k bulb if you want to try a bluer spectrum. I cannot remember if it was bought new or was given to me at some point but your welcome to use it.


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