ICP Test Kit Results (1 Viewer)

[Reefahholic]

 

[Cody]

Ok, I can’t resist. I must respond.

For the last 3-4 year’s we’ve been looking at hundreds if not thousands of ICP tests yearly. Not just from one company, but all of them!

Cody, did you think this was the first time that we’ve seen crazy inaccuracies from ICP Analysis.? This has been an ongoing for awhile. Those results are one of MANY that are completely flawed. Yes…nuke your reef and loose thousands of dollars flawed.

Cody is my friend (regardless of what he says behind closed doors ), and I love to pick and pull his chain, and we text back and forth occasionally, but I think sometimes he forgets that comparing ICP’s has already been going on for the last several years. Maybe this is new here at Marsh. This is not a new thing elsewhere, and there’s nothing we haven’t already learned or don’t already know about all of these companies.

Our 2.6K Moonshine members post analysis after analysis weekly. Newbies come in and at first they want to use “Triton” our “ICP Analysis” (which aren’t recommended for multiple reasons). Some members will disregard the advice initially, and later learn why they’re not recommended.

However, we do always see the data from other analysis which is always very beneficial and further solidifies our decision with ATI. Not only do Shiner’s compare all the ICP’s, but also the European’s, our friends in the UK with OCEAMO, Triton, and the list gets bigger. Most of our members are also OCEAMO members. So we do see all the ICP’s there as well.

So…comparing ICP’s is not a new thing, but for Cody it is currently. For those of us that have been relying on ICP data to dial in our elements over the last several years we all know which test’s or more accurate than the others. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we’re 3-4 steps ahead.

What drives me to these longer responses is when people flat out fail to listen to solid advice, but that is the world we live in today! This is why I see no point in continuing the conversation. I try to warn some of my fellow Marshians, but there are those who’d rather learn hard way. They would rather waste their money and nuke their reefs trying to find out something that we already know. Later on they’ll understand that the advice was solid. I think @webster1234 experienced exactly what I’m saying already which is how this thread and topic came about in the first place. Only because there’s been money invested in ICP analysis they want to make it work and I get that, but sometimes you gotta know when to hold ‘em and when to fold em. In this case it’s a fold.


Lastly, one cannot just send 2-3 tests off and then come to a grand conclusion from those short-term results. Let’s say 1,000 Marsh members sent out ICP’s from every company today. We would still be unable to draw a satisfactory conclusion and gain a true understanding of the accuracy and consistency from these different companies and tests. The results need to be considered over a longterm period. It takes looking at hundreds of analysis over several months and even years to really “weed-out” and separate the quality from the second-rate.

BTW, none of these labs are certified. However, the ISO certification may not necessarily lead to a better analysis anyway. The certification will drive up cost quite significantly (from mostly personnel) which would get passed on to the customers. In one respect I’m glad a lot of these labs have decided against the certifications, because ICP testing is expensive enough as it is. I feel like the data quality is still high enough for our needs IF you pick the right companies (reef hobbyist) and unfortunately ICP Analysis is not one of them. None of them are perfect, but some are far better than others to say the least. Business savvy (well marketing)
sharks are only in it for the money. That’s it.

Who is "we"?

 

[Reefahholic]

Who is "we"?

2.6K Shiner’s

 

[SCUBAFreaky]

2.6K Shiner’s

What is that? I don't know what that means.

 

[Reefahholic]

What is that? I don't know what that means.

You’ll find out soon. Everybody I know is jumping on the train even LFS’s here in Houston and also well respected coral farmers.

 

[gregg]

What is that? I don't know what that means.

It’s a beer made in Shiner Texas

 

[Reefahholic]

Here’s a few recent frags from the group. ATI must be guiding us fairly well right? Checkout a daylight pic. Can you spot the UV or blue on that bright white eggcrate. Nope!



Here’s a blue pic for comparison:



Can anybody post a few pics from the guidance of ICP Analysis to compare?

It’s a beer made in Shiner Texas

Yes, it’s shiner beer. Lol

 

[Reefahholic]

Can ATI guide you towards better colors with more accurate and consistent data to make informed decisions when dosing Trace element’s? Hmm…IDK.

Here’s another daylight pic. Look at these bright white frag plugs! Where is the blue and UV.? But how are the colors so vivid? Must be the Miracle Mud!

 

[Cody]

2.6K Shiner’s

Gotcha.

So let’s get back to the subject of trying to find accuracy/precision trends in test kits. Maybe we can work something out for a larger data sample for May’s frag swap/diy fish food/frag swap.

 

[Seaworthy Aquatics]

I've done 100+ of each of these tests myself and they're all fine really. I've found the biggest inconsistencies with the ICP analysis myself, with an occasional test being out of whack, but usually dropping a line to the company gets things cleared up easily enough. This goes for all three tests. Each company has occasional issues but you ask about your results and they look into it. ICP analysis just seems to happen the most often with maybe 1 in 10 tests having something skewed compared to maybe 1 in 20 for the other two companies. It's been a couple years since I've used an ICP since I prefer the ATI myself just because it gives you more information that I generally want to know and things like doing the rodi test as well. I'd say each tests is accurate and precise with 5% or less different results between each company on the same sample. Each test has its pros and cons. ICP is the fastest turnaround and my recommendation for tank emergencies. ATI gives you the most info. Trition would be my last choice in almost any situation, being both slow and less info, but you can buy them in bulk and save which you can't do with ATI. I certainly advocate the Moonshiner method though and certainly recommend using ATI as per the instructions, especially for new users, just for ease of use of the software or you need to do some converting to use the numbers.

 

[Reefahholic]

Yep, all our tools are built around the ATI analysis. No conversions or math needed. Everything is listed in mg/l or ug/l exactly how you would read it on the analysis, and the results are in the same order with our ICP Assessment Tool. So no need to bounce around looking for each element. Just go straight down the line…enter all the results…tab down…then hit enter. Print the summary page and check off the corrections as you dose. If that interest you let me know.

 

[gregg]

Yep, all our tools are built around the ATI analysis. No conversions or math needed. Everything is listed in mg/l or ug/l exactly how you would read it on the analysis, and the results are in the same order with our ICP Assessment Tool. So no need to bounce around looking for each element. Just go straight down the line…enter all the results…tab down…then hit enter. Print the summary page and check off the corrections as you dose. If that interest you let me know.

i'm very interested in trying out the product, i have a new tank setup being done and i'm gonna give it a shot. That being said, this thread is not about that product. I think its great that you and others are so excited about how well it might work, but if it really works so well then you don't need to highjack someone else's thread. Please be considerate of that.

 

[Reefahholic]

i'm very interested in trying out the product, i have a new tank setup being done and i'm gonna give it a shot. That being said, this thread is not about that product. I think its great that you and others are so excited about how well it might work, but if it really works so well then you don't need to highjack someone else's thread. Please be considerate of that.

My apologies

 

[Cody]

I've done 100+ of each of these tests myself and they're all fine really. I've found the biggest inconsistencies with the ICP analysis myself, with an occasional test being out of whack, but usually dropping a line to the company gets things cleared up easily enough. This goes for all three tests. Each company has occasional issues but you ask about your results and they look into it. ICP analysis just seems to happen the most often with maybe 1 in 10 tests having something skewed compared to maybe 1 in 20 for the other two companies. It's been a couple years since I've used an ICP since I prefer the ATI myself just because it gives you more information that I generally want to know and things like doing the rodi test as well. I'd say each tests is accurate and precise with 5% or less different results between each company on the same sample. Each test has its pros and cons. ICP is the fastest turnaround and my recommendation for tank emergencies. ATI gives you the most info. Trition would be my last choice in almost any situation, being both slow and less info, but you can buy them in bulk and save which you can't do with ATI. I certainly advocate the Moonshiner method though and certainly recommend using ATI as per the instructions, especially for new users, just for ease of use of the software or you need to do some converting to use the numbers.

Man, I wish you were doing duplicates throughout your testing experience and keeping records. That would be a wealth of data!

 

[decimal]

It seems common consensus overrides the scientific process and the most consistent test data originated from ATI.

I must say that from a personal perspective, the neon, candy rainbow colors of the pics provided is… unnatural and sort of like a if you took a nice Porsche, slammed a huge spoiler on it, fancy rims, giant tires and so on to wind up with some version that is better suited for a giant gold chain wearing dude rather than the beauty of what a Porsche really is. That being said, I understand (as previously discussed somewhere else) that maximizing growth and I guess, these Instagram colors are what everyone wants. That’s not for me, I just like messing around with my little tank. I like my colors to pop but don’t need any of what I saw here. Thanks. Good luck to all you guys chasing that.


Edit: for what it’s worth, the blue not being on egg crate doesn’t mean the pics is not heavily edited. You can do each frag individually sheesh.

 

[Stickboy97]

It’s in the spreadsheet that I attached.

And yes, I know that’s why mine are high, although are consistently that high. I’m considering turning the carx down to barely on and using two part to boost all for a while. That would allow the calcium to drop and then kick back on the carx when they get to a level I like.

My Cal always tests high, is that just a result of using the CaRx?

 

[Reefahholic]

Edit: for what it’s worth, the blue not being on egg crate doesn’t mean the pics is not heavily edited. You can do each frag individually sheesh.

We know the guy personally. There’s no editing going on. Most people who would edit aren’t going to take the time to edit/photoshop each individual frag and superimpose them into or over a white frag rack.

Frags are in this system with Radion G4 and Hydra’s.

I like my colors to pop but don’t need any of what I saw here. Thanks. Good luck to all you guys chasing that.

You like your colors to pop, but just not too much. Got it.

Man, I wish you were doing duplicates throughout your testing experience and keeping records. That would be a wealth of data!

How many records would you like of inaccuracies? If I showed you X amount of evidences would it be enough for you to walk away from ICP Analysis?

My Cal always tests high, is that just a result of using the CaRx?

My Mag was testing really high because I made the mistake of putting in the Remag too early. I had to dig it out and separate it all from the regular media and put it in a bag for later. Talk about fun! My Cal is testing high, but it’s not too far off the charts. I can live with it for now.

 

[decimal]

“Most people who would edit aren’t going to take the time to edit/photoshop each individual frag”

Maybe “most” but not all. So I don’t know if you are most people or not and I don’t really care.

“superimpose them into or over a white frag rack.”
Your specific editing knowledge is impressive.

“Frags are in this system with Radion G4 and Hydra’s.”
Ah yes. The famous Radions you said where only hype being supported by big ppl in the industry.

“You like your colors to pop, but just not too much. Got it. ”
I like my colors closer to what I would find on my dive trip in Cozumel rather than some neon radioactive glowing things but that’s my preference.

It’s been a long time since I have dealt with someone so abrasive in their nature. I’m just gonna have to mute you…. Again.

 

[SCUBAFreaky]

For what it's worth @Cody, I really appreciated what you were trying to do with this thread by conducting a data comparison. I like that you created a spreadsheet and shared it with all of us. I find that real data is super useful and fun to look at (engineer in me). It's unfortunate that a simple goal of comparing 2 test kits that are readily available to the club got twisted into such a poop show. Nonetheless thank you Cody for sharing! I enjoyed seeing the data at least.

 

[Reefahholic]

“Most people who would edit aren’t going to take the time to edit/photoshop each individual frag”

Maybe “most” but not all. So I don’t know if you are most people or not and I don’t really care.

“superimpose them into or over a white frag rack.”
Your specific editing knowledge is impressive.

“Frags are in this system with Radion G4 and Hydra’s.”
Ah yes. The famous Radions you said where only hype being supported by big ppl in the industry.

“You like your colors to pop, but just not too much. Got it. ”
I like my colors closer to what I would find on my dive trip in Cozumel rather than some neon radioactive glowing things but that’s my preference.

It’s been a long time since I have dealt with someone so abrasive in their nature. I’m just gonna have to mute you…. Again.

So abrasive? Because I told you that it’s not edited? Lol OK.
Please do. Also, please learn how to use the quote feature.