The DSB debate. (1 Viewer)

[Guest]

How many of you have removed your DSB? How many still use one?

Anyone have a link to a site that discusses the pro's and cons?

My original understanding when I started using a dsb, was that it helped maintain the PH. Is that true? Now I always here that it eventually turns into a nitrate factory.

Does anyone here use a de-nitrifaction chamber or an algae scrubber?
Any other ways of reducing nitrates?

 

[ChrisB]

I run some Sea Chem nitrate remover in my sump but am thinking about using my no longer needed canister filter to do the same thing. Think I'll fill it full of the nitrate remover and run it as needed to try and get the nitrates to zero. I don't think I getting enough water flowing through it with them just in a bag in the sump.

 

[Guest]

I'm not removing my DSB, but I'm not putting one in the new tank I'm setting up.

There are lots of threads on RC, but in a nutshell, DSB's tend to absorb nutrients - specifically nitrate and phosphate - which is why they are great, for the first year or two. At some point though, they "fill up" and will eventually start leaching those nutrients back into the system.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't do a DSB - it's one of many methods you can use for a reef tank. You just need to be aware of the consequences. Even the leading DSB proponents like Dr. Ron now admit that the sandbeds fill up and have to be exchanged at certain intervals (I think he recommends 5 years - a lot of people have problems way before that).

I'm going with a starboard bottom in my new tank, because I am convinced that it is the easiest way to export nutrients. A barebottom/starboard tank lets you have ridiculous amounts of flow that you couldn't have with a sandbed. This keeps detritus in suspension better so it can be removed by filter socks or wet skimming. What does manage to settle on the bottom can be easily siphoned out during water changes.

 

[Guest]

Ok, I think I understand.

The other part of my question was about the PH, does the DSB have any impact on PH?

 

[dfimble]

I have been running my DSB with plenum for over 2 years now and have been pleased with the results. To date, I have never had a detectable amount of nitrates.

Although I would like to attribute this to the DSB, I believe that it, along with high water flow, and numerious amounts of worms/life that live in the sand have all been key in keeping the nitrates at bay.

I have read the articles on the sandbeds filling up and am curious what will happen to the tank in a few years.

David

 

[Guest]

The reason I'm concerned is I'm gonna be removing everything from my tank and swapping out a lot of the LR, I'm trying to figure out wether or not to remove the DSB. Maybe take it out, clean it all with fresh RO water and put it back? I dunno.. doing that would kill all the life in the dsb.

 

[Guest]

I don't think DSBs have any effect on pH.

 

[Guest]

i no longer have a DSB. I use Starboard for the bottom of my aquarium at the moment. Gets covered in snail crap (detritus) in less than a week and i have to vacuum it. Kinda awakens you to the amount of dead decaying matter that are in your aquarium. But it's nice knowing that my aquarium isn't going to nuke spontaniously due to the high amounts of nitrates.

 

[djreef]

It's my contention that DSBs have their place, but unfortunately, that place is not in the main system - a conclusion I came to a few years ago when the DSB in my main system began solidifying as a result of the stupifying ammounts of dosing materials (CaCl, CaOH, buffers, etc) I was putting into the tank. DSB should be cultivated in a separate refugium type setup, kept separate from the predators (fish, hermits, etc) located in the main tank. It's not that DSBs don't work, they do, but must be maintained properly, and remain full functioning. They must be disturbed as little as possible by larger predatory life forms. They also must be incredibly diverse in the variety of life that they house, so that the sand stays in a constant state of flux, and isn't allowed to stagnate at the upper levels. Because of this the refug must also be large, with the DSB being relatively deep - 6"+. The systemic problems associated with DSBs involve SBs that are only partially functioning, improperly setup, or collapse as a result of mismanagement/accident. Macros/chemo filtration can then be used to mop up the remaining organics before water is returned into the main system. I'm convinced, after years of trial and error, that a Berlin setup with a separate large (representing at least 30% of total water volume) hi-flo refugium, with a 6"-8" DSB is the best way to go for those wanting to maintain highly diverse microenvironments. Unfortunately, it's also a very complex/involved setup.

DJ

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[Guest]

I removed my DSB from one of my tank this month. I detected some nitrate in the system since. I don't have to worry about the high flow stir up the sand. I just added more lights in the refugium to promote the growth of the Caulerpa to reduce nitrate and install nitrate denitrator later.

With the other DSB tanks, the nitrate is undetectable and everything is growing very fast and have nice color. I will see the difference between the BB & DSB. Let see what happen.

 

[Rick]

I put in a large dinitrator on my tank about 4 month ago, and I'm not real happy with it. It cost me over $100 and stand about 3 1/2 ft with lots of black coil and 2 inputs on top and one output flow to the side. I've checked the ouput several times and it seems that the water comming out has a higher nitrate concentration that the water in the main tank. The theory I believe is that you start out with the flow being slow so that it can culture a certain type of algae in the inner chamber, and then after a month or two you increase the flow. The combination of going through the black tube and the cultured algae is suppose to remove the nitrates? Didn't work for me... :-( I'll probably leave it for another month or two and test the water again, that is why I'm thinking of going to the DSB, to help control the nitrates. I'm willing to change out the sandbed every couple of years if it controls the nitrates.

Rick

 

[Guest]

If your nitrates are higher coming out of a denitrator, that means your flow is too fast. Too much flow will allow oxygen to reach the inner coils of the tubing and feed the aerobic bacteria instead of the anaerobic bacteria you want.

 

[Rick]

I'll try turning the flow down again... However when it was to slow it got a sulphur type smell to the water.

 

[BrianPlankis]

I had a DSB in my 55 gallon reef and my nitrates were only above zero a couple of times in 9 months. But near the end I had slacked off on maintaining my tank and I did have a black spot develop in the back of the tank, probably due to low flow and not very many sand stirrers.

I agree with djreef about putting the DSB in the refuge. That is what I'm planning on doing with my new system. I'm only going to put 1-2" of sand in my main display tank. This will be to make the main tank look nice and to provide habitat for the various critters that like to be in the sand, not for denitrification like a DSB.

B.

 

[Guest]

I think you'll find as many opinions on DSB's as there are reefkeepers.

My own (perhaps naive) opinion is that DSB's and even Plenum systems work great when combined with nutrient export as long as you ensure that they stay sufficiently diverse (recharge kits).

If they start to clump, then you're in trouble.

 

[Guest]

Remote DSB's (i.e. in a refugium) are not very effective at reducing nitrates.

Shallow sandbeds in the tank can be the trickiest, because you will trap detritus without the benefit of it being processed (at least temporarily) like in a DSB. If you go with a shallow bed, you need to stir it regularly to release any detritus - maybe in conjunction with running a filter sock or wet skimming, to remove the released crud from the water.

With barebottom, it's easier to get the crud out of your tank before it even starts to rot. It seems like a lot of the people who have switched to barebottom tanks are also ditching their refugiums as well. They just don't need them anymore, and in fact have difficulty sustaining the algae, because the nutrient levels are so low. That's the theory anyway - I'll see how it plays out in practice with this next tank.

 

[Guest]

They just don't need them anymore, and in fact have difficulty sustaining the algae, because the nutrient levels are so low. That's the theory anyway - I'll see how it plays out in practice with this next tank.

hmmm, i've had no problems w/ keeping my calurpa(sp) alive w/o my DSB, and they're actually growing like weeds now.

 

[Rick]

What type of nitrate sponge do you use and where and how much are they?

 

[Guest]

i used a denitrator on my 90 before i took it down and it worked pretty good. Just takes some time to adjust it right.

 

[Rick]

how fast did you have the drip, 2-3 per second?