another attempt to explain P.I.F. (1 Viewer)

[Scott]

i dunno...i want to find a way to keep it fair for people that can't be on the site all day every day

a lottery system? Kinda like:

Ok, there are three frags of X available and you have two days to pick a number between 1 and 50. The three closest win! Whatever is done though, it should still be up to the person giving the frag away. Or maybe the owner could say Sorry, but you got 4 recently and I just want to give someone else a shot first before I give it to you.

Just a thought.

It should also be on the merit system as well. When Karlo posted his orange monti I wanted one but didn't ask because I already had so many and just feel kinda guilty that I don't have anything to give yet.

 

[soymilk]

thats the reason why I did my little game. I wanted to randomize it as well as give everyone watching a fair chance.

I didn't like the first come first serve. I also don't mind if someone takes a bunch of corals without giving back yet. The whole PIF was meant to PIF in the future. As long as that person continues the program, then all as well.

If someone gets 10 frags and then decides to get outta reefing and sells them... I will be at the house with a pitchfork and torch.

 

[HorseyStripe]

If someone gets 10 frags and then decides to get outta reefing and sells them... I will be at the house with a pitchfork and torch.

i'll be right next to you with a rusty spoon in my hand and blood on my mind...

anyhow...i added a "score" sheet to the spreadsheet...people need to update their sheets!...add a picture if you can...

if you have any questions on working the google doc let me know...i'm getting it figured out pretty well...


Good news is...there's 14 people involved in the PIF-ing...of which only 3 haven't taken anything...

the "score" sheet isn't meant to be used as anything other than that everyone can see....i don't know...if you don't like it...remove it...i just spent an assload of time weeding through threads trying to figure out all the data...

 

[merkurmaniac]

I didn't like the first come first serve. I also don't mind if someone takes a bunch of corals without giving back yet. The whole PIF was meant to PIF in the future. As long as that person continues the program, then all as well.

Good points. I was also happy that the PIF idea came along, as it was good timing. It helped me with the decision. I was going to get rid of some Darth Mollusk Candycanes, but I was given them free, so I couldn't feel good selling it.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

With the use of the scorecard in place, then "seniority" if you will, can take place. Maybe there should be a time limit that the item should be posted before decisions are made. 48 hrs? 72 hrs? this gives everyone a chance to post.

 

[HorseyStripe]

With the use of the scorecard in place, then "seniority" if you will, can take place. Maybe there should be a time limit that the item should be posted before decisions are made. 48 hrs? 72 hrs? this gives everyone a chance to post.

that sounds good...maybe...some of the threads were gone in 2 hours...some took a day or two...

thoughts?
comments?
concerns?

 

[soymilk]

Fundamentally I believe the new PIF is different than that of the old. The old focuses on giving someone corals with what seems like nothing in return.

Why don't we scrap the PIF idea and try something a little different. My new plan requires less tracking less tabs and less problems.

It's like a virtual community tank. Everyone "donates" 2 frags of one coral. You keep the frag, but it is listed in a thread for availibity.

A list is formed from all the "donations". If you want something you have to donate 2 frags to pick up a different frag. You cant donate something already on the list. This way the "pool" continually grows.

People get something they want, pool grows, collection grows. It's fair cus you gotta give to receive. Yadda Yadda.

 

[gabe_j]

Where do we donate the 2 frags to?

 

[merkurmaniac]

Another aspect is exitement and dedication. Some guys might be really into saltwater reef tanks right now and may spend all day on Marsh and reefzentral, waiting for something to happen.

Also, a guy who is willing to spend his Saturday driving all over town to collect PIF frags maybe should be rewarded for his enthusiasm, rather than another who might say... "Hang onto it for me, I'll get our there sooner or later" (not patterned after anyone in particular.) I am just saying that enthusiasm can/should be a factor as well.

 

[merkurmaniac]

My response above was to Horsey stripe, the two subsequent posts were after I had started mine.

It seems like the same guys participating, but I am also quite surprised to see that there are as many participants as there are, when they are listed out. 14 people is pretty impressive.

I like the way PIF is going, especially the family tree part. Soymilk's take is interesting too. We need to not get too bogged down in recordkeeping and keep it fun too.

I also DO think that all that receive are genuinely planning on giving as soon as they can. No one will want to be perceived as gaming the system.

I say, lets stay the course and see how it turns out. perhaps we go like we are going, and if lots of people line up for a frag, then the quantity people have received could then be a tie-breaker if the donor chooses it to be a factor.

 

[padanky]

I limited myself because I thought that was written up in the beginning, So far I've given two and received two. I never got the cap from Karlo, I got something else, not listed as a PIF but will later be PIF'd.

We need more PIF'rs, plus with more Involvement nobody would have to drive from say, Spring to Galveston to get a PIF.

I like the whole deal so far though, it's only the beginning.

 

[HorseyStripe]

Fundamentally I believe the new PIF is different than that of the old. The old focuses on giving someone corals with what seems like nothing in return.

welll i fail...i was under the assumption that everyone who "donated"/"sponsored" coral had the assumption that everything was freely given and there was nothing expected in return...i started it and was the first one to post a thread, in which the only thing that i EXPECTED IN RETURN was that the people recieving my frags re-PIF'ed them to someone else...

Why don't we scrap the PIF idea and try something a little different. My new plan requires less tracking less tabs and less problems.

i was just worried about the tracking for the purpose of education on care of certain corals and knowledge of our new members/beginners...but i'd love to see this new plan...anything is worth a shot...HOWEVER, would it be easier to simply eradicate the spreadsheet????...I'm with the general consensus, whatever that may be...

It's like a virtual community tank. Everyone "donates" 2 frags of one coral. You keep the frag, but it is listed in a thread for availibity.

confused but ok...it's listed so everyone can see it it's not listed there so it's "available" to other people it's available so that other poeple can see the progression/growth of the coral too...it's actually irrelevant to me as long as the people who get my frags for free give them to someone else for free...so, while we're at it we can just scrap the threads too....

A list is formed from all the "donations". If you want something you have to donate 2 frags to pick up a different frag. You cant donate something already on the list. This way the "pool" continually grows.

again, the difference between "community frag tank" and "pif" this can be a difficult concept to understand, i know...it took me days to comprehend it and i went from one side to the other without even realizing it...i might be wrong, and please, correct me if i am...i need to know...

as far as i can see, everything i've suggested and done so far is in line with the "PIF" concept.....TEMPSET, where are you!? your opinion and thoughts would be greatly appreciated and valued at this juncture....

People get something they want, pool grows, collection grows. It's fair cus you gotta give to receive. Yadda Yadda.

i agree, as well as see the value in a system like this...but this thought process seems to be more closely aligned with our idea in THIS thread...please check it and see if it's more in line what you're talking about...


I plan on PIF-ing all my corals when they grow out, irregardless of whether or not i get ANYTHING in return...(i may try to sell some stuff, including fish, when the Coast Guard forces me to move, but NEVER any PIF corals that haven't been PIF-ed)

that's the nature of the beast...my tank is full and i can seriously not put another coral frag in my 90g without gluing it to another frag or putting it where it would deprive another of light/flow required...

all but 3 of these i paid for...and might i add, dearly...the only reason i haven't fragged any of them for the PIF program yet is because they're too small...it's coming...and actually, if anyone wants a teeny tiny piece of purple cap come get it and it's yours...i broke it off today on accident when i was, once again, reaching in my tank for something stupid...

 

[Scott]

I think what we have here is some people wanting to do the frag tank idea but trying to use the PIF program to accomplish is, if Im wrong let me know.

We can do both, we were just waiting for the first of the year to start the community frag tank.

HOWEVER, would it be easier to simply eradicate the spreadsheet????

Say the word and I will delete the link...

 

[merkurmaniac]

No, don't delete the spreadsheet, maybe just the first page with the tallies on it. Lets not have the tallies (that I suggested) sour the whole thing, if that's the case. I really like the fraglines idea.

Man, I just took pics of the candy cane and pasted them in the spreadsheet tonight.

 

[HorseyStripe]

I like the way PIF is going, especially the family tree part. Soymilk's take is interesting too. We need to not get too bogged down in recordkeeping and keep it fun too.

+1...if it makes it easier i can attempt to keep track of all PIFs myself...i'm up for the challenge...or if the majority would rather not keep track...then it makes my life easier

I also DO think that all that receive are genuinely planning on giving as soon as they can. No one will want to be perceived as gaming the system.

+736,457....i agree...

I say, lets stay the course and see how it turns out. perhaps we go like we are going, and if lots of people line up for a frag, then the quantity people have received could then be a tie-breaker if the donor chooses it to be a factor.

much more well said than i did in my previous post...i've been drinkin vodka and cranberry and i apologize if i came off as an !@#$% earlier, or if i am now...

P.S. censor didn't pick up donkey-hole with no spaces..might want to add that to the list that changes it to neat fishy names

 

[HorseyStripe]

No, don't delete the spreadsheet, maybe just the first page with the tallies on it.

done i thought that it might be controversial

 

[HorseyStripe]

Say the word and I will delete the link...

nope i just deleted the first page

 

[soymilk]

I was against the frag tank idea just because it would require someone to take care of it. I know you suggested you could Scott. I just thought just using out own tanks and just putting a "virtural" frag tank up would save time and effort. There are only 2 fundamental changes. No central frag tank, and depositing 2 frags for every withdrawal. Other than the 2nd frag piece, I'm pushing for Not being able to deposit the same coral unless the list is out of stock for that coral.

Donating two corals to get one would help the list grow. This way we can always be sure the list is growing and not becoming stagnant. These are the pros for this "program"

-It allows people to browse one localized thread for corals.

-Corals variety will increase with every transaction. Ideally the let will grow exponentially.

-It allows people still to PIF and donate corals without withdrawing.

-it doesn't require one person manning a frag tank 24/7. The corals are still in an environment they have proven they can grow in. Better for the corals.

-provides instant gratification since you get something for giving.

 

[HorseyStripe]

...and depositing 2 frags for every withdrawal....

unfortunately, with that system you can't withdraw without "PIF-ing" either...kinda kills the whole PIF idea, it's not about recieving...(in my mind anyhow) it's about giving...you HAVE to give 2 to get one...

...-It allows people still to PIF and donate corals without withdrawing....

/agree...and with the community frag tank (i posted the link to the thread earlier) this is the complete concept...

now the difference between a "virtual" and "physical" tank needs to still be discussed...and will be once we hit next year...but not right now...everyone's too busy...goin in and out of town...

 

[padanky]

I like it how it is, I think the spreadsheet is fine too. It's just getting more complicating the more I read. We don't want to make it more trouble than it's worth.

As long as the same 3-5 people are not at the top of the list every time a New PIF pops up, it should be fine. Don't get Greedy, even if there are only a few of us doing it.