Two Acanthurus in tank (3 Viewers)

[steveb]

Ugh y’all are bumming me out.

Ok I will pass on the clown tang then. The PB and Achilles are in QT together but separated by egg crate.


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[steveb]

I thought dudes were supposed to encourage each other’s bad decisions? [emoji58]


Seriously though I appreciate the feedback from your personal experience.


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[TriggerFan]

LOL - I would encourage you to give it a try, but after my VERY expensive bad choice, I don't want anyone to put any livestock through the same pain.
(I could care less about you burning a whole in your pocket!) (just kidding)

 

[RR-MAN]

In my opinion you are rushing it. I understand you are trying to quarantine a group of fish which makes it easier. I'm just saying to save you some money.

I had the achilles for over a year before adding the powder blue and powder brown. We all want the pretty fish....but go slow.

Ugh y’all are bumming me out.

Ok I will pass on the clown tang then. The PB and Achilles are in QT together but separated by egg crate.


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[Reefahholic]

In my opinion you are rushing it. I understand you are trying to quarantine a group of fish which makes it easier. I'm just saying to save you some money.

I had the achilles for over a year before adding the powder blue and powder brown. We all want the pretty fish....but go slow.

Rush it...Rush it!!!

Honestly man...I can’t say anything because if I were to do it...I’d QT the group in a 20/L. I think the outcome is better when a group goes through 6 weeks of QT together. Trying to add a PBT or Achilles later is a nightmare. Once one of those fish establishes his territory in the DT...it’s gonna be far worse than what’s happening in that QT.

What happens...happens. When you put them in a smaller tank...it’s like they know they gotta be somewhat tolerable of each other.

 

[steveb]

Got a little Ammonia from the new additions to the QT. Copper at 2.08

 

[steveb]

My two black cap basslets croaked and the copperband didn't look very happy. Not sure if its copper or ammonia related. Put them all in a 40g. Going to do TTM.

 

[Reefahholic]

My two black cap basslets croaked and the copperband didn't look very happy. Not sure if its copper or ammonia related. Put them all in a 40g. Going to do TTM.

I don't think it's the ammonia...I've had lower levels like that before and never had issues, but I usually transfer before or after my levels reach 0.25ppm. There will always be a little bit of ammonia in a fresh QT unless you're using Dr. Tims to knock it down or cycled/colonized Marine Pure balls from your sump or something similar. If I know i'm going to get a big batch of large fish that will be in the QT for a while...I'll use cycled media. I've used Dr. Tims a few times, but it gets expensive.

I hope you didn't use a reducer!

Freshwater dip and transfer the fish. Are there any symptoms present or strange behavior?

 

[steveb]

the two black caps where fine last night as far as I could tell. the copper band also seemed fine but wasn't eating as aggressively as in the past.

today both black caps dead, the copper band is slowly swimming around at the water surface. I don't see any spots of any kind on him or the black caps.

The rest of the fish seem fine. Tangs are actually more active now.

 

[TriggerFan]

Doubt it was ammonia. I assume you are using Copper Power? Did you go straight to the therapeutic level or spanned through a few days?
Is your filtration up to the task in your QT? I had a Tidal 55 in my 20-gallon tank and it was not enough. I will be running a canister now in my 40 breeder.

 

[Reefahholic]

My two black cap basslets croaked and the copperband didn't look very happy. Not sure if its copper or ammonia related. Put them all in a 40g. Going to do TTM.

What was the initial copper level?!

the two black caps where fine last night as far as I could tell. the copper band also seemed fine but wasn't eating as aggressively as in the past.

today both black caps dead, the copper band is slowly swimming around at the water surface. I don't see any spots of any kind on him or the black caps.

The rest of the fish seem fine. Tangs are actually more active now.

I'm gonna say Ammonia level or Copper level if you didn't use a reducing agent.

A long time ago I have a 20/L full of fish. I tried to skip my normal 3 day transfer and after 6 days I had one fish that was staring into the glass and wouldn't move. He was messed up.

I tested Ammonia and it was sky high. I immediately did a transfer and 2 hours later he was doing fine again.

I started checking Ammonia with Salifert a lot more frequent after that.

 

[steveb]

Doubt it was ammonia. I assume you are using Copper Power? Did you went straight to therapeutic level or spread in a few days?

Copper power, went to 2.34 over 3 days. dosing 2x/day, I did overshoot a little but removed water and added fresh saltwater to get to 2.08.

No ammonia reducer or any other med's.

 

[Reefahholic]

Doubt it was ammonia. I assume you are using Copper Power? Did you go straight to the therapeutic level or spanned through a few days?

That is a great question. Did you ramp up Steve? I hope you did and didn't put any Amquel in there.

 

[steveb]

ok here are the notes from my log..

9/26 .22 added powder blue tang ammonia 0 - dosed copper power in the evening but didn't record the measurement
9/27 1.01 dosed am/pm to get to this level
9/28 1.6 dosed am/pm to get to this level
9/29 added achilles + tank separator - 2.3 dosed am/pm - when I measured in pm and got 2.3 I started doing water changes to reduce
9/30 2.1 no dosing
10/1 2.13 no dosing
10/2 2.08 no dosing ammonia .25 or .5 depending on how you look
10/3 2 black caps dead one am, one shortly after moving to new tank. copper band swimming in lazy circles at water surface.




NO Amquel or any other ammonia reducer, or any other medications have been used

 

[TriggerFan]

I guess the fish were probably too sensitive to Copper and when you overshot it was a bit much for them.
I'll shoot for 2.0 even though I have read they should be OK if you go a bit higher.

 

[Reefahholic]

Copper power, went to 2.34 over 3 days. dosing 2x/day, I did overshoot a little but removed water and added fresh saltwater to get to 2.08.

No ammonia reducer or any other med's.

That's kinda a quick jump, but the overall 2.08 is fine. That quick ramp over the target range could have triggered them, but hard to say.

If they recover...and there's no spots...it may have stressed them too much.

 

[steveb]

I will perform another ammonia and copper test to close out the hospital tank and report back.

 

[Reefahholic]

ok here are the notes from my log..

9/26 .22 added powder blue tang ammonia 0 - dosed in the evening but didn't record the measurement
9/27 1.01 dosed am/pm to get to this level
9/28 1.6 dosed am/pm to get to this level
9/29 added achilles + tank separator - 2.3 dosed am/pm - when I measured in pm and go 2.3 I started doing water changes to reduce
9/30 2.1 no dosing
10/1 2.13 no dosing
10/2 2.08 no dosing ammonia .25 or .5 depending on how you look
10/3 2 black caps dead one am, one shortly after moving to new tank. copper band swimming in lazy circles at water surface.




NO Amquel or any other ammonia reducer, or any other medications have been used

Love the notes!

So I think maybe they had a reaction. Or it appears that way.

Let me dig up the drug compatibility guide to see if the black caps are on it. Maybe their moderately sensitive to copper.? I do not think they're on the "don't treat with copper list"

 

[steveb]

Major bummer I loved those black caps.

 

[Reefahholic]

I know you didn't use other meds, but just gonna paste for future reference and search results:

Medication compatibility guide:


Reducing Agents:

Avoid using reducing agents found in conditioners or some medications in conjunction with other medications. The reducing agent in one solution might react with the other solution to create a toxic chemical.

Example:
Prime + Copper (No, Prime will reduce ammonia to non toxic form, this will also react with "medical copper" making it release more free ions, which will kill the fish. Water changes will help in removing ammonia in that case.)


Antibiotics:
Use antibiotics with caution when mixing with other medications. It is recommended to bind medication with food using Seachem Focus for it to be most effective in healing Internal Infections. Dose directly in water for External Infections. Dose antibiotics for 10 Days. Avoid dosing for excessive amount of days past the 10 Days mark. Below 10 days or way after 10 days might cause the bacteria to become resistive to the antibiotic. No severe reactions have been found when mixing antibiotics with treatments like copper, CP, Prazi, although some reactions have been found with less used medications and are listed in "Others" section.

Antibiotics include but not limited to:
Metronizole (Ex: Seachem Metroplex)
Nitrofurazone / Nifurpirinal (Ex: API Furan-2)
Kanamycin Phosphate (Ex: Seachem Kanaplex)

For severe infections or gram-negative bacteria use the trio Metroplex, Furan-2, and Kanaplex. (aka Trifecta)


Formalin/Acriflavine:
Although these can be technically mixed with some medication, it is not advisable to do so. Formalin or Acriflavine are better done as a bath with non-medicated water. Make sure to monitor the fish when performing the bath and provide plenty of aeration as they are known to deplete oxygen from water.


Praziquantel:
Praziquantel can be used in liquid form or powdered form. Powdered form is recommended as it doesn’t have the reducing agent Oxybispropanol found in PraziPro (liquid form), which makes it technically safe to dose with other medications. An example of powdered form is API General Cure, which is Praziquantel with Metronizole.

Praziquantel + Copper
Praziquantel + Chloroquine Phosphate (Only in powder form, PraziPro will not work)
Praziquantel + Antibiotics
Praziquantel + Malachite Green


Copper:
Be cautious with copper, most copper treatments are paired with bonds to make them relatively safer than pure copper, this means that sometimes mixing them with other chemicals or medications might alter the bond and make them toxic.

Copper + Praziquantel
Copper + Chloroquine Phosphate (Technically yes, but highly not recommended, choose one or the other, it is fine if you want to transition from one to the other, but you need to do water changes to make sure to remove as much as possible)
Copper + Antibiotics
Copper + Myxazin
Copper + Paraguard (No, paraguard has reducing agents)
Copper + Prime (No, Prime is a reducing agent)
Copper + Sulfa-based Antimicrobial Medications(No)


Chloroquine Phosphate:
Somehow its still considered a mystery drug. Be cautious when mixing medication with it since no test kit is available to check if its consumed or reduced.

Chloroquine Phosphate + Praziquantel (Only in powder form, PraziPro will not work)
Chloroquine Phosphate + Copper (Technically yes, but highly not recommended, choose one or the other, it is fine if you want to transition from one to the other, but you need to do water changes to make sure to remove as much as possible)
Chloroquine Phosphate + Antibiotics
Chloroquine Phosphate + Prime
Chloroquine Phosphate + Pyrimethamines


Others:
This is a list of other medications that have been found to work/not work together. Methylene Blue and Malachite Green are recommended to be used as a bath and not dosed to QT.

Erythromycin + Minocycline (Marcyn 1 + Marcyn 2)
Sulfadimidine + Trimethoprim (Marcyn Plus)
Mythylene Blue + Erythromycin (No)
Malachite Green + Erythromycin (No)
Malachite Green + Formalin/Acriflavine (Recommended as Bath only)
Erythromycin + Other Medication (No)
Tetracycline (and its derivatives) + Other Medication (No)
Sulfa-based Antimicrobial Medications + Antibiotics/Antimicrobial (Not recommended)
Sulfa-based Antimicrobial Medications + Copper(No)
Sulfa-based Antimicrobial Medications + Malachite Green (Recommended)